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Edited by Wes:
11/23/2023 11:32:23 PM
12
These nerfs don't address the root cause of the issue
The nerfs announced in yesterday's TWID revolve around the idea that certain builds are too powerful, but it also extended nerfs to every single build in the game with the orb generation nerfs.
That's right. [i][u]Every existing build is getting nerfed.[/u][/i] That is a blanket guardian nerf.
Well, I'm going to remind you that power is relative. We are powerful relative to our enemies.
And what are our "challenging" enemies? What are the enemies in most content that are supposed to serve as a power check? Champions.
And guess what? They're just not. They are boring, repetitive, and mechanically simple and provide no meaningful check to our power. Stun with a few bullets and then melt with abilities is a joke.
You know what enemies do provide that check? Tormentors.
That is what we need. We need more unique, powerful enemies that meaningfully check our power like Tormentors are capable of.
Get rid of champions altogether and give us more unique, truly difficult, boss enemies, and THEN evaluate the power scales.
Example: What if there was a boss enemy that had AoE suppressing fields? Maybe buffed the enemies with damage, DR, or suppressing abilities? What if there was an enemy that spawned damaging AoEs that we had to navigate while dealing with intense add density?
What if enemies had armor types (like Tormentors) that were weak to blast, precision, grenade, melee, or sustained damage? What if multiple of these bosses could spawn and have synergies with each other?
Each and every one of those would be many, many times more engaging, complex, and difficult, than champions.
Edit: To be clear, I'm not debating the merit of the nerfs to hammer and banner. This post is limited to the general discussion of the power scales between the Guardians and their enemies.
[b][i]Bungie themselves have made it clear that they measure our power by comparison to that of our enemies. [/i][/b]
Therefore, if the power checks present in the enemy ranks are too weak or infrequent, the scale will always say to nerf us. I'm simply arguing that Champions set far too low of a bar for engaging or difficult bosses and therefore the measure of our power is skewed.
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The root cause is not listening.
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4 RepliesI actually hate tormentors. Prefer light bearers except for their wall hacking blade barrage
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If only Tormentors, boss or not, weren't entirely circumvented by a particular exotic which also, ironically enough, was historically used to trivialise champions. Divinity does wonders. Rhulk was absolutely a step in the right direction for boss design, but I'd also like to see the return of Insurrection Prime type mechanics.
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[quote]These nerfs don't address the root cause of the issue[/quote] You mean the issue they caused that has been going on for years that is casing more problems then their ever needed to be. The game isn't the problem, it's the people designing the game that is the actual problem. Adjustment are necessary in any game, but basing adjustments off of weak at best designed mechanics that they love to spam the crap out of is just wrong. You mentioned for them to come up with new unique boss enemies and failed to look at the fact that they are not interested in designing new unique anything. This has been a fight with them and the community for over 6 now, and who do you think won?
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Bungie asks us to grind to X level to do content that will then lock us several levels BELOW that level. Do I even need to say more? Because that should be enough to point out that they have no idea how to do power and difficulty.
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5 Replies[i]Well, I'm going to remind you that power is relative. We are powerful relative to our enemies.[/i] You are conveniently ignoring how powerful one build is relative to its alternatives. That is the crux of players' choice: why use any other build if one is head and shoulders above the rest?
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We need unstoppable enemies that cannot be stopped. That would shake things up
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1 ReplyI...don't think I want more tormentors either. Incredibly annoying to fight because they check power TOO much. Non precision weapons flat out suck at killing them and getting one shot or blasted by tracking projectiles that come out for like 10 seconds isn't fun. Destiny legit needs to give us a combatant 2.0. Idk what it would entail, but something needs to be revamped on the enemies side to create challenge besides bullet sponge one shot.
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2 RepliesHonestly, adding one or two new enemy types isn't going to fix the problem. Although I would love to see the Berserkers from Scourge of the past become an enemy type in the fallen. The main thing that need to be updated is the current enemies within the game. Examples for each race would be Servitors in the fallen get an extended range in their immunity field to make them feel like the priority and push them all mostly into yellow bars, making them a more dangerous defence tool for the fallen. As for the Vex, make standard infantry work similar to taken thrall where if you aim down sights at them they teleport to evade you, they are supposed to be this highly adaptive machine race after all. As for the Cabal, maybe make the phalanxes more aggressive allowing them to push towards you with shields raised and having access to melee variants of them. Lastly hive thrall, change up their animation so they stumble and crawl, maybe even dodge out of the way of your aim.
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14 RepliesYou are 100% right. If they did it like that it would definitely be better but also a much more massive undertaking. I'm pretty sure even Bungie has said they're tired of champions it's just the thing where people act like they can't believe they exist. They are almost an artifact of a different time at this point but replacing them in the way suggest has got to be a time consuming thing.
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43 RepliesEdited by Bore: 11/23/2023 7:32:07 PM[quote]The nerfs announced in yesterday's TWID revolve around the idea that certain builds are too powerful. Well, I'm going to remind you that power is relative. We are powerful relative to our enemies. And what are our "challenging" enemies? What are the enemies in most content that are supposed to serve as a power check? Champions. And guess what? They're just not. They are boring, repetitive, and mechanically simple and provide no meaningful check to our power. Stun with a few bullets and then melt with abilities is a joke. You know what enemies do provide that check? Tormentors. That is what we need. We need more unique, powerful enemies that meaningfully check our power like Tormentors are capable of. Get rid of champions altogether and give us more unique, truly difficult, boss enemies, and THEN evaluate the power scales. Example: What if there was a boss enemy that had AoE suppressing fields? Maybe buffed the enemies with damage, DR, or suppressing abilities? What if there was an enemy that spawned damaging AoEs that we had to navigate while dealing with intense add density? What if enemies had armor types (like Tormentors) that were weak to blast, precision, grenade, melee, or sustained damage? What if multiple of these bosses could spawn and have synergies with each other? Each and every one of those would be many, many times more engaging, complex, and difficult, than champions.[/quote] It is relative. And the two titan builds are relatively stronger than every other build in the game.
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3 RepliesYou don't like the same boss fight where they shoot at you and stomp if you get too close.
