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Edited by Madman: 3/6/2015 8:19:34 PM
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Addressing Concerns Regarding John Hopson's Statements on Loot at GDC

[url=http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2015/03/05/bungie-explains-really-killed-destinys-loot-cave]Yesterday, at GDC, Bungie's John Hopson discussed why they killed the loot cave, and he demonstrated how naive and ignorant Bungie is regarding their game and their players' experiences.[/url] I apologize if a couple of those words come off as harsh, and I'm fully willing to admit that the following may be taken out of context (as it's reported by Kotaku after all), but I honestly find some of this alarming. I don't want to get hung up on the loot cave stuff. Instead, consider the other things Mr. Hopson reportedly said at this panel. [quote]One person got up to ask why they didn't have a Gjallarhorn despite playing for over 700 hours. Hopson said that unfortunately, someone had to end up being that unlucky.[/quote] So let's just consider this for a second. Bungie purposefully designed a system in which they acknowledged some of its player base would have a frustrating, unfulfilling experience. And they're okay with that. For the record, my personal experience is 450 hours and no Gjallarhorn. It really isn't all that uncommon for players to chase specific things in the game (despite the fact that there are mostly no ways to chase most of the desirable things in the game) and invest weeks of their lives into the game and not get that thing. And then, when it finally happens, if it ever does (statistically speaking, there's no guarantee), it's likely going to come from a low-level greg in the Cosmodrome. Not because we're pounding loot caves, but because the reality of the game (which Mr. Hopson seems to not know) is that most of our desirable gear has come this way. If it doesn't come from a random drop off a random low-level combatant, it might come at the end of an activity we've already completed ad nauseum. Thus, obtaining this stuff is neither memorable nor fulfilling. And Bungie is okay with this. Furthermore: [quote]Hopson mentioned that Bungie didn't expect the random drops to be as big of a deal as they ended up being. What they were expecting was for players to simply buy better gear, and to have random drops act as the cherry on top, so to speak. Instead, players have latched onto the RNG, and it's affecting their perception of the game.[/quote] Tell me, what better gear did they intend for us to buy? Is there some vendor hidden in some corner of the tower that offers max. light level gear? Is there a vendor in the tower that sells gear that isn't ultimately irrelevant? Of the gear that is offered in the tower, is there a plethora of variety for us to choose from? Where exactly is this better gear that they intend for us to buy? Certainly, Xur offers us exotic wares, though his offering is pretty limited. As well, the use of exotics is also limited. But beyond Xur, there isn't really much that we can buy that's ultimately useful and/or desirable. In terms of armor, the vendor gear is not varied, and it's ultimately a stepping stone to max light level gear, so there's little incentive to buy a bunch of it and mix up stats and perks. Not only is the effect minimal, but there's just no point in grinding to build up gear you're inevitably going to dismantle for scraps. As weapons go, most of them just aren't very interesting, and unless we need attack level 331 weaponry, we're better off holding out for favorable rolls in the wild. If we could reroll or customize gear that we could buy... These two statements, however, concern me that Bungie is not fully aware of the realities of their game. Perhaps the intention was to offer us the ability to buy great stuff, but the game we have limits us severely in that regard. If there were a greater variety of stuff on sale, if it were desirable, and if it were accessible, it might be a different story. But the statement that Hopson thinks we like the RNG mechanic, that we've "latched onto it," is worrisome. We haven't latched onto it for any other reason than that we just have no other options for obtaining this desirable stuff. Also the RNG mechanic in its entirety is fundamentally flawed and uninteresting, but that's a completely different topic. For now, I just hope Bungie isn't misinterpreting what their data means. Just because we're hunting engrams instead of buying stuff from vendors doesn't mean we prefer hunting for engrams. It's just that Bungie's vendors are extremely limited in their use and appeal.

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  • Edited by AdamMc1536: 3/8/2015 3:57:12 PM
    Longevity of a game is partially determined by the amount of random luck, that manifests as grinding, inherent to the game or a true grind that guarantees reward. Too much will cause players to give up, and too little won't keep people around long enough for the game to be memorable. The gaming world is evolving. There used to be a stark difference between fps/action games and rpg/strategy games. The two are being fused like never before. With that comes the good and the bad of both worlds. Players new to rpg style RNG and grinding will hate that aspect of the game, but they will understand achievement as it is respected in fps and action games. With that said, in a past post I calculated that a specific exotic had a mean time to drop of about 2.5 months if you ran both raids on hard with all 3 characters each week (6 chances per hard raid, 3 characters is 18 chances per week). I was lucky enough to have gotten a Gjallarahorn, but I still need Red Death and Hawkmoon. I complete all raids and Nightfalls each week with no reward. It is the only thing that keeps me playing (plus for longevity argument). However, I am growing weary and bored and have debated quitting on several occasions (plus for RNG killing the game eventually argument). This is why I suggested removing vanguard mark caps and allowing a vendor to sell exotics for 1000 to 1200 marks. It will still take the mean time of 2.5 months. However, now you are guaranteed to get what you want. It will gives players a light at the end of the tunnel without flooding the game with exotics effectively sustaining longevity and removing the weary boredom that RNG creates. On a side note, Deej stated in an article that Bungie's intention was for us to obtain every exotic. At first that seems like a feasible task because they are all new so every drop is a breath of fresh air. However, when you are down to 2 left with no way to influence RNG. The statistics suggest it may take a year or more two finish the task they claimed they wanted everyone to achieve. Like I said above, let us grind it if we truly want it. RNG is good, but it can be cold and salty. Let us feel the sense of achievement for a hard grind instead of misery for not being lucky.

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