You would say it was created not because of its complexity but because you know someone made it. And, yes, I think something as complex as an iPhone could have evolved: basic nervous systems in Arthropods have the same complexity.

Using that logic I can say I think someone made humans because I know someone made them... If you find a toy in the woods, was it made or evolved from the ground? It sounds silly.. But what evolution states is far more then just a toy

A claim asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. Good day, sir or madam.

Buildings, and iphones require a designer because they do not occur naturally. You can't look at an old tree and ask how designed it, it just grew. Same with the universe, it is natural so it doesn't require a designer.

I'm asking you to look at evolution from a third parties perspective, you can't just say evolution happens "this way" because evolution happens, so it must be this way... Basically what you said Evolution is a theory, that scientists say makes sense if they can throw billions of years at it.. So they keep building this tower of theories on each other using other theories, carbon dating, Big Bang, and get to a solution that's no more then a theory

Like I said a theory in science is a [i]proven[/i] hypothesis. We have observed little changes in species over small amounts of time. Now if you add billions of years, those changes still occur over a much greater time span, resulting in a much greater organism than the one that started.

Haha I never understood how scientists can make that leap... I observed this car traveling by me. So Eventually it will travel outside our solar system. That's what the interpolation seems like to me.. I fully understand and agree with micro evolution.. But Macro evolution is just a theory hiding behind time and chance.. I'd rather believe in something more

It doesn't work like that, a lot of factors come in, like gravity. It is a very well thought out and proven hypothesis.

It actually was seen as impossible at first... Until scientists threw 4 billion years at it and then they decided it could happen, so all that evolution stands on is time a probability... I need more to believe

Then your just going to have to look for yourself, I am not the messenger, I just have a clear understanding about reality. It isn't a belief it is a fact whether you believe it or not.

Is it now? Many theories in science have been disproven later in the future.. Only a fool closes his mind, you should always question your ideas. I for one am always eager to learn something new. Perhaps God used evolution? But through all my studying I have not found enough evidence to prove otherwise... Fossil record is probably leading cause for my unbelief... Where are missing fossils

I have an open mind, I was a christian who believed earth was created in 7 days. Then I opened my eyes and saw that it wasn't true. Theories don't get disproven, hypothesize do.

[quote]An iPhone is much less complex then the human body.. Yet if you found one in the woods you wouldn't assume it evolved over the past billion years... You would say it was created? Why then with something so much more complex do you not even consider design?[/quote] Because there is evidence of iphones being designed and no evidence that they occur naturally. Humans occur naturally and there is no evidence of them being designed

You can't argue evolution exists by saying evolution exists... I'm asking if you didn't know about evolution and saw a human being and an iPhone next to each other, why would you think the human could come from nothing but not the iPhone

What? I don't think you understand me. I'm not talking about evolution. I'm talking about how we distinguish things that are designed and things that are not designed. Things that are designed / created do not occur naturally. Do we see iphones replicating themselves out in nature? No they are made in factories by designers. Do we see human replicating themselves? Well obviously Lol.

Your saying humans occur naturally... Your argument is just basically "evolution exists" I'm saying humans couldn't possibly occur naturally when we are immensely complex, the human Mind alone we might never understand, yet an iPhone or any type of technology, would never be thought of as evolved from dirt... If you can explain where any matter came from to begin with

[quote]Your saying humans occur naturally[/quote] Yes [quote]Your argument is just basically "evolution exists"[/quote] No. I'm saying that we distinguish things that occur naturally with things that don't occur naturally. That is how we determine if something is designed. If you take away our ability to distinguish the two, then you cannot tell if anything is designed. The designed thing would be things that do not occur naturally. [quote]I'm saying humans couldn't possibly occur naturally when we are immensely complex, the human Mind alone we might never understand, yet an iPhone or any type of technology, would never be thought of as evolved from dirt... If you can explain where any matter came from to begin with[/quote] I take it you don't understand what naturally means and I take you don't understand evolution. I don't know where it came from. Can you explain it with evidence and not assertions?

I understand evolution very well.. I just don't believe in it.. Micro evolution definitely happens, survival of fittest yadda yadda, legit. But macro evolution takes quite a bit of faith, faith placed in randomness hiding behind nothing but time, to make the scientists feel good. I understand what your saying about distinguishing between natural and designed, but your flaw is in assuming we came from a puddle and therefore we are natural. Besides, if we did come from nothing then aren't we all natural? We are just the universe looking back on itself in your mind so anything we create is natural? All I'm asking you to do is compare what we design to what is "natural" in your mind and find Design in the "natural" Maybe where we are unclear is I believe God created all things. And his design is prevalent everywhere.. In a blade of grass using photosynthesis, in a single cell of my body more complex then a city, in the balance of the universe and our solar system.. I see design, you see luck

[quote]I understand evolution very well.. I just don't believe in it.. Micro evolution definitely happens, survival of fittest yadda yadda, legit. But macro evolution takes quite a bit of faith, faith placed in randomness hiding behind nothing but time, to make the scientists feel good.[/quote] Micro and macro evolution are the same thing. If you accept one and reject the other, you don't understand evolution. The only qualifier is time. It's like saying this paint stroke and that paint stroke aren't the same because the latter's length is longer... The same process occurs. And evolution is not random. Another misconception that so many ppl have. That's why I believe you don't understand it. [quote]I understand what your saying about distinguishing between natural and designed, but your flaw is in assuming we came from a puddle and therefore we are natural. Besides, if we did come from nothing then aren't we all natural? We are just the universe looking back on itself in your mind so anything we create is natural? [/quote] I don't assume we came from a puddle. I never said we came from nothing and I'm not understanding you. We are not the universe looking back on itself, in my mind and anything we create would not be considered natural Lol. Did you mean to reply to someone else? Where did you pull these assertions from? What did I say to make you think, that I think that stuff? [quote]All I'm asking you to do is compare what we design to what is "natural" in your mind and find Design in the "natural" [/quote] You can't find design in nature. (That's like saying, look at the design of this house after a hurricane passed through it) Otherwise there would be no nature. It would just be design. You can however apply what you find in nature to designs. I think this is just semantics. I think you have a different definition for evolution, nature and design. In my mind natural is things that occur in nature without intent. Design are the things we make out of nature. Nature is a natural occurrence. A process unto itself. Design is not a natural occurrence. It is not a process unto itself. [quote]Maybe where we are unclear is I believe God created all things. And his design is prevalent everywhere.. In a blade of grass using photosynthesis, in a single cell of my body more complex then a city, in the balance of the universe and our solar system.. I see design, you see [b]nature[/b][/quote] Fixed.

Also saying a house getting destroyed by a hurricane is saying the difference between design and nature. The weather system was designed... My belief... It's just design dismantling design

If you believe in evolution then you see all life as a random circumstance starting with space, Proteins and ending with humans.. Hence why evolutionists see Humans as the universe looking back on its self. I stated this because that is the thought of evolutionists, we are the universe studying itself because we grew from the universe... Sorry if I put thoughts in your head.. But most evolutionists hold to this

Even if they happened to hold that, that is not evolution. Evolution is the change in gene frequency over time. It is a fact, because it can be observed. It is also a scientific theory. Evolution by natural selection. Because it explains why the gene frequency changes overtime. Edit - Also it is not random. Don't know why you think it is. It is guided by natural selection, something that is not random. If it was organisms would not be qualified for their environment lol