So let me just paraphrase what you said 1. You have to be in a good position/ hiding I don't want to hide from thorn users all day 2. They have to get a good position That just means they have to walk over to where they can shoot you 3. They have to outgunned you At least half the deaths I have to thorn I do outgun them but the dot kills me. I've used thorn, the aim assist and fire rate is WAY to high