If you check my kd you'll see I'm far from the greatest player, but I personally find red death a way easier gun to use than thorn. Of course, the operative phrase here is "personally find." I don't care if people want to go at each other's throats over the mechanics of a chunk of code in an electronic entertainment, as reading them is usually good for some giggles, but the semanticist in me gets a little aggravated by the constant misapplication of words like "fact" and "truth." There are plenty of other factors at play when you're up against an opponent with Thorn besides its stats, so any attempt to make some blanket assertion about it is misguided at best. Do I get frustrated getting killed a lot by thorn? Of course. Did I roll my eyes in IB when the majority of the opposition seemed to be using it? Sure I did. But at the same time, the role of that gun has, in one way or another, been probably the central factor driving what improvement I have made to my crucible game. It took me a really long time to finish the bounty, which I'm thankful for (in retrospect, I'm glad I stuck with using only a hunter for so long; that lack of a void subclass really does add a magnitude of difficulty to the task), as all that time pinging away with Atheon's Epilogue did wonders for my ability to land headshots. The constant threat of getting burned to death has pushed me to both be smarter about taking cover when I find myself under fire, and keep a cooler head when I'm squaring off face to face and get hit with that first dose of green glow, making sure to keep a steady hand instead of flailing around in panic on my look stick like I used to. And even though I find it tricky to use, I still push myself to get a handle on Thorn (especially in pursuit of hand cannon bounties), and working with it has made me a little more proficient with hand cannons across the board. Sure, it's got some pretty insane range, but I personally enjoy having something that gives you a chance against, say, snipers who camp on the crashed ship(? Whatever that slanted piece of terrain is on the end of shores of time opposite A) and like to turn C into their personal slaughterhouse; it's good to have one or two counterpunches for lousy snipers like myself. Point being, Thorn is a challenge in a lot of ways to a lot of people. If that's the case, why not push yourself to step up and surpass that challenge instead of asking for the challenge to be removed? It seems like most of the people calling out for a nerf usually qualify their request with something along the lines of "*I* can deal with it, and the people who use it suck, BUT...[insert opinions described as facts here]," so why would you want Bungie to take away something from which you derive feelings of superiority? Cool your jets, let the "scrubs" keep "spamming away with their scrub gun," and make your point with your play, not message board petitions. If somebody with Thorn is getting under your skin, make it your mission to go get that guy instead of crying out to the digital overlords to take the gun out of their hand. Meet the challenge face to face instead of typing about it! But hey, that's just my opinion.