[b]To clarify I am not putting the guy who said this on blast I am interested in other atheist feedback on the claim.[/b] My main two questions: 1) What do other Atheist think about this? 2) Some reference Western Atheist but are there other Atheist I am not aware of? --------------------------------------------------- [b]The claim:[/b] Atheism is merely an extension of Protestantism [b]His explanation:[/b][spoiler]Well, when you get time you can read my other replies if you already haven't, but the *short* answer (at least short by my standards) is that Protestantism--particularly John Calvin--is what started the notion itself that God is a matter of belief and religion merely the affirmation of belief. Compare any Protestant Church to an Orthodox or even a Catholic one. Pretty bare isn't it? It's just a large room with a Bible and maybe a large Cross at the most (many Calvinists even reject this as idolatry). No Sacraments either. It's because religion to Protestants merely means belief--mental affirmation, "faith alone," believing in the Bible. That's why they also have pews whereas Orthodox Churches with the exception of the Greeks and Catholic Churches prior to a certain time never had pews but stood during worship. Worship to the Protestant is merely learning--an educational, classroom experience so that they can continue believing. It's all about belief. Keep this in mind. Atheists don't believe in God or religion. They don't believe in God or religion because God and religion in the context that atheism arose from during the late Reformation and Enlightenment was merely a matter of belief. They disbelieve in God because God to them can be disbelieved in, which is precisely the same ideology that Protestants had/have. Contrast this with the fact that in most religions outside of the West, and even in non-Western Christianity like Eastern Orthodoxy (which I'll use as my main example since it's the one I know most about), God isn't a matter of belief or disbelief, or even existence for that matter since God is understood as being completely transcendent--transcending even existence--and attempts to reduce Him to a matter of existence, belief or disbelief, and other Scholastic practices are viewed as attempts to confine God to a test-tube. And religion for that matter isn't viewed as the affirmation of belief but as something you *do.* It's about the experience--becoming a better person, allowing your present life to be transformed, growing in love, etc. It's about the Sacramental. God to us is known through these experiences opposed to logical syllogisms. We don't bother trying to ascribe properties and affirmative dogmas onto the essence of God, but rather have the Essence-Energies distinction which is basically the idea that God can only be known through His energies--the tangible experiences he gives to us--whereas in His essence He is completely unknown and unknowable. Hence why historically the Orthodox world never had any atheist movements that weren't directly the result of Western influence--because atheism doesn't make sense from an Orthodox perspective since God isn't a matter of belief to us. Don't get me wrong. From a Western perspective I do believe that atheism is the most logical conclusion. I imagine that if I weren't Orthodox I would be atheist. However, from a non-Western perspective, it doesn't make much sense. But when I look at it through a Western lens, I can see why it would arise and even defend it within its context.[/spoiler] --------------------------------------------------- [b]My personal opinion on the matter:[/b][spoiler]Essentially from a non-Western perspective it isn't going to make sense because no one around questions it. Atheism isn't as prominent in lesser developed countries because of a few reasons. 1) Access to information is limited 2) Not nearly as many people question God/gods existence I don't think that makes atheism connected to protestantism but rather it just highlights lesser developed countries don't have the base knowledge to question it to begin with. If you look at the graph the more developed a country is the less religious it is. Edit: It sounds like your saying God is not questionable but sooner or later regardless of Protestantism, science would have developed and atheism would have arose, hence the connection to developed countries being less religious.[/spoiler][url=http://www.pewresearch.org/files/2015/03/FT_15.03.10_religiousGDPscatter.png]Chart that shows how religion varies in different countries based off of how developed they are[/url] --------------------------------------------------- [b]If interested this is where it came from:[/b][spoiler]I had another [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/122261898/0/0]post[/url] asking the question [b]"Why do some Protestants not consider Catholics Christian?[/b]" because this is always something that intrigued me. In one of the sub replies someone answered it and also brought up something else that led me to post this. [b]His answer:[/b] If it makes them feel any better, Protestants don't consider us Eastern Orthodox Christians to be Christians either, but to be fair, we also don't consider either of them Christians. Well, sorta-kinda. Roman Catholics are considered schismatics and heretical because they willingly left the Church whereas Protestants are considered merely heathens because they never belonged to it in the first place. But to answer your question, I think the reason for the majority of them--at least in America--is due to what their parents teach them which in turn is rooted in a long line of anti-Catholicism stemming from history. Take into account that Protestantism came into existence as an offshoot of the Roman Catholic Church and faced much discrimination and oppression by Catholic Europe before immigrating to America. These prejudices have prevailed in the attitudes of American Protestants. It wasn't until the 1920s that parochial schools were protected by the Supreme Court and even then for decades after that, particularly during the Cold War, Catholics and Orthodox people were discriminated against via sponsored prayer and the like. Eastern Orthodox canon law--and Roman Catholic canon law until Vatican II--prohibits corporal prayer with those outside of the Church. Prayer in school was often a form of discrimination to try to convert them to Protestantism. And in fact, it was ironically Catholic groups in the late 19th century that sowed the seeds of Separation of Church and State. During the Cold War my Orthodox godfather was in the Army National Guard and he said that on national days of prayer and the like, the soldiers were only divided into Catholics and Protestants but the Orthodox people weren't divided but were forced to pray with one of the aforementioned groups, thus violating our faith. As for theological reasons why Protestants don't consider Catholics Christians, as an Orthodox Christian I am very biased in this department. In my opinion, both Catholics and Protestants are merely two sides to the same Augustinian coin that Western Christianity slipped into after Rome committed schism in 1054. Anselm in particular introduced Scholasticism and many legalistic elements which evolved into Penal Substitutionary Atonement, Salvation as a mere acquittal verdict, and a literal Heaven and Hell, all of which have never existed in Eastern Orthodoxy since we never went in the same direction as the West. Even the main theological fighting point for Catholics and Protestants--Faith vs. Works--is a non-issue that does not make sense in the Eastern Orthodox Church since our entire soteriology is different and therefore the same dichotomy does not arise in our system. But yes, if you would like to examine the differences scholarly, I would say to start with soteriology. Protestantism is merely Roman Catholicism taken one step further. Western Christianity by its very nature is reductionist. Just as the Roman Catholic Church dropped the concept of theological Mystery and Theosis for Scholasticism and an acquittal verdict, so Protestantism has taken the same system a step further by dropping elements like Sacraments and devotion to the Saints since they don't make sense from the Western soteriological model. [b][u]IMHO and controversial opinion, atheism is merely an extension of Protestantism[/u][/b] just as Protestantism is of Roman Catholicism. But that's a topic for another day.[/spoiler][i] [/i]