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#feedback

Edited by Lost Sols: 12/7/2015 3:07:53 AM
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Intolerance. Gaming, Destiny and finding common ground in an online world.

[quote]Greetings fellow Guardians, I think a large number of you are aware at this point of the standoff that's been going on between a portion of the community and Bungie over the issue of matchmaking. If you've been on the forums the last week+, you know that I have been involved in this and have tried to reason along with hundreds of other guardians why this issue is so important to us. I have to admit that I was pretty down yesterday. I'd posted on Bungie's stance of not only silence, but removal of posts from the Trending and Highest Rated categories... only to have them remove it too an hour later. As I told another Guardian who found theirself angry with their post removed today, censorship sucks... but when you find you're the one being censored, it is literally like a kick in the gut and it is really hard to not take it personally. I never intended to be here writing these posts, but sometimes you end up places in life where you're given a choice. I love the game and have been a Bungie fan since '02, I don't want to be adversaries with them. So here I am reaching out to you all again (and Bungie, if they care to listen) in one more attempt to convey that we're just trying to reach the same goal of making Destiny the best game it can be. Thank you, Lost Sols[/quote] So I was thinking about all of this this morning. The mm issue, the forum censorship, the hardline stance by Bungie and the division this has caused between members of the community as well as the disconnect between us and Bungie at this point. Yesterday was a struggle and I wasn't sure what today would bring. Then at about 5:30 this morning the supportive posts started coming in and not just from those that have been backing this cause, but new voices adding their support. That helped bouy my spirits quite a bit, but then something else happened. These messages lit up. [quote]Make friends scrub[/quote] [quote]Go to computer games if you want in game matchmaking idiot.[/quote] [quote]Wow your pretty stupid why would there be in game matchmaking were playing on consoles not PCs FYI..[/quote] Nothing terribly over the top for the forums for sure. Muted one. Replied to the other two. One's response was "Queer". It opened my eyes and brought this whole week into focus. This isn't just about whether or not there should or shouldn't be matchmaking in Destiny, this is about showing tolerance for other people and points of view (and yes, it goes both ways). There's no doubt LFG and clans can be great ways to meet people and experience games with them. I don't think anyone who wants matchmaking would deny that. Something else that cannot be denied is indelibly a part of both of those avenues of meeting people is that they're both built on the foundation of not only inclusion, but exclusion as well. This isn't to draw all who use LFG or have clans under one umbrella, but a staple of both forms of grouping is intolerance, preconception and segregation. We've all read hundreds of posts along the lines of "kicked from raid for not having Gjally", "can't get into PoE because don't have Thorn", "kicked a squeaker before loot because he was annoying", etc. Now how many of the thousands of clans or LFG groups actually discriminate against people (gear, age, voice, gender, race, etc)? My guess is that whatever the %, it is far in the minority, but that brings us to the issue of matchmaking. Matchmaking is inherently everything LFG is not. There is no bias, there is no prejudice going in, there is no "must be 32, have big Gjally". Matchmaking treats everyone as equals and some may argue that's for better or worse, but I can say this for a fact. When I'm queueing for a random matchmade game, I don't care if you are old, young, black, white, Asian, straight, gay, male, female, deep voiced or a squeaker. I don't care if you're using Gjallarhorn, Dragon's Breath, Thorn, Up for Anything or any other weapon. All I care is that you try and you do your best at whatever we are trying to achieve. If you have a mic and want to talk that's great. If you just want to play and know what to do, that's great too. The argument that is waged the most against matchmaking is that people won't have mics, they won't have the right weapons, they'll be annoying, they'll be quitters, they'll be scrubs, they'll need to be carried through... The problem is that you don't know what someone is if you never give them a chance. When you tell someone they can't join your group because you don't like their gear or the sound of their voice, you have no idea who the person is that you are turning away. You don't know their capabilities, skill or willingness to do whatever the team needs. You're also not taking a chance to know someone that could potentially end up being a great friend. It's a lesson that could heal so much of what is wrong in this world if we just stopped the FEAR, stopped the HATE and stopped the MISTRUST and started giving each other a chance and realizing we're all the same. We have one life on this planet to live together the best we can, to love the best we can, to make what friends we can and provide the best life and make this world the best place it can be for our families and children. Destiny is a [i]game[/i]. If someone dies and your raid group wipes, it's not going to take food from your table, money from your pocket or draw any blood. So why get mad? Why disparage? Why not help them get better if they need it instead? We are all here because we love playing Destiny. There will always be those that are better and those that need a helping hand. There is no greater chance of coming across someone who is just a bad person in matchmaking as there is in LFG, it's just a misconception and lie perpetuated and hidden behind so people can pick and choose whom they experience content with. The maddening thing is that we are asking in these posts for an option to use matchmaking, so it would have no affect on those that didn't want to use it anyway. Not everyone is going to be a social butterfly. Not everyone is going to have any extra time to go get on their computer and LFG. Not everyone HAS a computer or smartphone to team up outside the game. Not everyone wants to be friends or in a clan, they just want someone to run and experience some content with. Maybe someone isn't talking because they are deaf. Maybe they can't reach out online because they have social anxiety disorder. Maybe they don't want to try to join a clan for fear of rejection. It doesn't matter why someone doesn't want to go outside the game to play it because that is no one's decision or right to judge but their own. Should they be punished and excluded from access to the heart of endgame play because of their reasons? That is the question everyone, including Bungie with their "Philosophy" need to look inside and ask themselves. Bungie. I've saved you for last because I'm sorry, but you've been the biggest disappointment in all of this. You created this game and asked us to populate it. You created this forum and asked us to give thoughts, opinions and feedback to help improve the world of Destiny. You said... [quote]Player feedback is one of the most important components of the conversation on Bungie.net[/quote] [quote]Bungie thrives on feedback. Never feel like you need to stick up for us when you see someone expressing an honest opinion about our games. We’re harder on ourselves than anyone else.[/quote] [quote]If you’d like to see new items placed on this list, start a New Topic on this Feedback board. Popular opinion matters! Topics that trend on this forum are more powerful than comments on this post.[/quote] You told us to forge our own destiny and to become legend. Well here we are, Bungie. We've purchased your game. We've spent thousands of hours in your world. We have fought the Fallen, Hive, Vex and Cabal. Travelled to Mars, the moon and Venus. We have fought in the Crucible and strived for success in Iron Banner. We have populated these forums. We have offered feedback and suggestions. We have started new topics and we have supported each other and posts and ideas for a better Destiny that we believe matter. We've done everything you have asked of us and we've given and invested ourselves in this game. And here we are with a genuine concern and feeling of exclusion and we come to these forums and reach out to you in this medium you've created for us. We've been eloquent, fair and we've made genuine efforts to educate, engage, understand and find common ground and we've grown and learned more about each other all along the way. We've poured our energy and emotions into this and in return we've been given a few stock replies, ignored and worst of all, these topics you've asked us to create, these ideas you've asked us to share, have been routinely and thoroughly censored by removing them from the 2 most visible forum tabs. We've genuinely tried reaching out to you in the hopes of finding understanding and repairing this disconnect. I've stated this before and I'll say it again. We are not adversaries. [quote]I'm really conflicted at the moment. I am so grateful for the way the community have banded together to support each other and this community desire, but I'm also genuinely saddened at the stance that has been taken against us. This was a call to reason, not war.[/quote] I never wanted to write that. I hope you're listening and I hope you come back to the table. We're not asking for you to do anything you can't, we're just asking you to consider a different point of view.

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  • Well said. Bump

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    • Nuff Said!

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      • Bump

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        • Very well stated sir. Thank you very much for all you've done on this issue, and in the past.

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          • Great post. I am usually up for a good debate but there are those who push it too far.There is a code of conduct that we are suppused to adhere to and there is also the report and hide function. I suggest we all use these, filter out the offenders until the only ones they communicate with are those who are like minded or are removed from the forums.

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            • Bump and +1 for this. I could not have put it better myself.

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              • Edited by Kone19ps: 6/3/2015 4:28:45 PM
                Bump

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                • Great post. I for one, can absolutely confirm that people have turned me away many times for not owning the gally or thorn. I'm a level 31 Titan and I'm not a freaking quitter. I'll work my ass off and do whatever it takes to help my team complete a raid. And I'm not even talking about the tough challenges, I'm talking about the Vault of Glass on Normal! It's hard to find a group who's willing to invite someone below level 32 (or 34 most of the times), and I basically gave up looking for a group here. I'll spend as much time as I can to get one of those damn weapons. But you see, it's hard to obtain legendary gear and weapons when you're ruled out of the best challeges because they require a team of players. And even worse - when they won't let you join a group of players through matchmaking. /rant over, now that it is on their list, I just hope it gets implemented soon.

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                  • long post. but definitely worth it!

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                    • Bump

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                      • Good post, good argument, good diction and phrasing. Have you considered being a lawyer?

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                        • It's a shame that things have come to this. They're creating rifts and schisms in their gaming community and fan base.

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                          • Your posts do highlight quite a bit of the things im let down about. I do feel as if i have some decent ideas and opinions but after hearing this im not even sure they are worth sharing. Sounds like they wont be listened to. Im at the point where i dont want to be a common poster after reading some of the things i have seen in the normal random discussion. The moderation on some completely off topic posts seems like the only point is to pick on people. Guess i should just be grateful the game is here at all. Im very new to these forums so please do tell me if im going about this the wrong way. Im from a different game forum where there seems to be somewhat appropriate moderation and a language filter so my eyes dont burn. So please dont flame me just let me know. Im new here.

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                            • And I'm back for my daily bump. I'm wondering if the responses from Bungie is directly from these posts or the Forbes and IGN articles. There are a whole lot of intolerant jerks, I've met a few as well. I've left teams found via #recruitement due to x,y,z slurs. Not because they were directed at me, but because it's behavior that I won't tolerate or associate myself with. Heard it from a younger sounding player as well, I'm curious if he was serious and was raised a bigot or if he thought it was funny. Its sad either way. It's ways good to remember that everyone on the internet is 7 feet tall, 300 pounds, and have their black belt in ass kicking of course. I've never had a problem helping people out. I've gotten more than one person through their first VoG, and I've never turned down a NF invite to help out even if I've done it that week. Most of us posting here all want the same thing. To play a game, and most of us are more than happy to help other players out. MM me with newer players for PoE, NF, or the VoG. I'll guide the tour. Hearing people get all amped up over downing Atheon for the first time never gets old. Especially for Hard Mode. Anyway, good job on posting on a way that gathered so much support.

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                              • Edited by Cactus Arms: 6/4/2015 1:30:31 PM
                                #the truth

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                                • Well said. I have a 60 hour a week job. I have a wife and child I like to spend time with. Once the day is done I like to spend a couple of hours on Destiny. Very few of my friends play console games. I have joined clans but don't have the time to mess about with lfg. I just want to play Destiny. I have made some good friends through matchmaking on strikes. I've had only one person since Destiny arrived in September who went afk; I enjoy using the mic and meeting new people. I don't want to suffer the kick during an lfg if I'm not the host. Give me the option to run raids and Poe in matchmaking mode because otherwise I don't get to play these endgame pieces. It's only a game. Please Bungie let me play it how I want to!

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                                  • Bump for a good cause.

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                                    • Honestly I just go on LFG all they would need to do is add an in game LFG service or something. What do you guys think?

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                                      • Bump. Well Said.

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                                        • Bump. I've always felt that censorship is happening as well. Either that or the Website administrator has some coding wrong.

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                                          • Bump don't let them get yea down theirs a lot of people that support what u and others are trying to accomplish

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                                            • Really happy there's people out there who have the patience and ability to write these posts.

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                                              • Bump!

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                                                • Super Bump

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                                                  • All Bungie really cares about is whether you will pay for the next DLC or Destiny 2. It is too easy currently to play something else and forget about the frustrating experience Destiny provides. Too many on my Friend's list have moved on to other games. I may well follow if not only for curiosity. Sadly, Bungie puts a lot of effort into this but they try to cater to different crowds (PvE vs. PvP'ers vs. Raiders, ...) and there is simply no happy compromise. This should be a lesson to Bungie and all future development.

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                                                    • Bump

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