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#feedback

Edited by Lost Sols: 12/7/2015 3:07:53 AM
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Intolerance. Gaming, Destiny and finding common ground in an online world.

[quote]Greetings fellow Guardians, I think a large number of you are aware at this point of the standoff that's been going on between a portion of the community and Bungie over the issue of matchmaking. If you've been on the forums the last week+, you know that I have been involved in this and have tried to reason along with hundreds of other guardians why this issue is so important to us. I have to admit that I was pretty down yesterday. I'd posted on Bungie's stance of not only silence, but removal of posts from the Trending and Highest Rated categories... only to have them remove it too an hour later. As I told another Guardian who found theirself angry with their post removed today, censorship sucks... but when you find you're the one being censored, it is literally like a kick in the gut and it is really hard to not take it personally. I never intended to be here writing these posts, but sometimes you end up places in life where you're given a choice. I love the game and have been a Bungie fan since '02, I don't want to be adversaries with them. So here I am reaching out to you all again (and Bungie, if they care to listen) in one more attempt to convey that we're just trying to reach the same goal of making Destiny the best game it can be. Thank you, Lost Sols[/quote] So I was thinking about all of this this morning. The mm issue, the forum censorship, the hardline stance by Bungie and the division this has caused between members of the community as well as the disconnect between us and Bungie at this point. Yesterday was a struggle and I wasn't sure what today would bring. Then at about 5:30 this morning the supportive posts started coming in and not just from those that have been backing this cause, but new voices adding their support. That helped bouy my spirits quite a bit, but then something else happened. These messages lit up. [quote]Make friends scrub[/quote] [quote]Go to computer games if you want in game matchmaking idiot.[/quote] [quote]Wow your pretty stupid why would there be in game matchmaking were playing on consoles not PCs FYI..[/quote] Nothing terribly over the top for the forums for sure. Muted one. Replied to the other two. One's response was "Queer". It opened my eyes and brought this whole week into focus. This isn't just about whether or not there should or shouldn't be matchmaking in Destiny, this is about showing tolerance for other people and points of view (and yes, it goes both ways). There's no doubt LFG and clans can be great ways to meet people and experience games with them. I don't think anyone who wants matchmaking would deny that. Something else that cannot be denied is indelibly a part of both of those avenues of meeting people is that they're both built on the foundation of not only inclusion, but exclusion as well. This isn't to draw all who use LFG or have clans under one umbrella, but a staple of both forms of grouping is intolerance, preconception and segregation. We've all read hundreds of posts along the lines of "kicked from raid for not having Gjally", "can't get into PoE because don't have Thorn", "kicked a squeaker before loot because he was annoying", etc. Now how many of the thousands of clans or LFG groups actually discriminate against people (gear, age, voice, gender, race, etc)? My guess is that whatever the %, it is far in the minority, but that brings us to the issue of matchmaking. Matchmaking is inherently everything LFG is not. There is no bias, there is no prejudice going in, there is no "must be 32, have big Gjally". Matchmaking treats everyone as equals and some may argue that's for better or worse, but I can say this for a fact. When I'm queueing for a random matchmade game, I don't care if you are old, young, black, white, Asian, straight, gay, male, female, deep voiced or a squeaker. I don't care if you're using Gjallarhorn, Dragon's Breath, Thorn, Up for Anything or any other weapon. All I care is that you try and you do your best at whatever we are trying to achieve. If you have a mic and want to talk that's great. If you just want to play and know what to do, that's great too. The argument that is waged the most against matchmaking is that people won't have mics, they won't have the right weapons, they'll be annoying, they'll be quitters, they'll be scrubs, they'll need to be carried through... The problem is that you don't know what someone is if you never give them a chance. When you tell someone they can't join your group because you don't like their gear or the sound of their voice, you have no idea who the person is that you are turning away. You don't know their capabilities, skill or willingness to do whatever the team needs. You're also not taking a chance to know someone that could potentially end up being a great friend. It's a lesson that could heal so much of what is wrong in this world if we just stopped the FEAR, stopped the HATE and stopped the MISTRUST and started giving each other a chance and realizing we're all the same. We have one life on this planet to live together the best we can, to love the best we can, to make what friends we can and provide the best life and make this world the best place it can be for our families and children. Destiny is a [i]game[/i]. If someone dies and your raid group wipes, it's not going to take food from your table, money from your pocket or draw any blood. So why get mad? Why disparage? Why not help them get better if they need it instead? We are all here because we love playing Destiny. There will always be those that are better and those that need a helping hand. There is no greater chance of coming across someone who is just a bad person in matchmaking as there is in LFG, it's just a misconception and lie perpetuated and hidden behind so people can pick and choose whom they experience content with. The maddening thing is that we are asking in these posts for an option to use matchmaking, so it would have no affect on those that didn't want to use it anyway. Not everyone is going to be a social butterfly. Not everyone is going to have any extra time to go get on their computer and LFG. Not everyone HAS a computer or smartphone to team up outside the game. Not everyone wants to be friends or in a clan, they just want someone to run and experience some content with. Maybe someone isn't talking because they are deaf. Maybe they can't reach out online because they have social anxiety disorder. Maybe they don't want to try to join a clan for fear of rejection. It doesn't matter why someone doesn't want to go outside the game to play it because that is no one's decision or right to judge but their own. Should they be punished and excluded from access to the heart of endgame play because of their reasons? That is the question everyone, including Bungie with their "Philosophy" need to look inside and ask themselves. Bungie. I've saved you for last because I'm sorry, but you've been the biggest disappointment in all of this. You created this game and asked us to populate it. You created this forum and asked us to give thoughts, opinions and feedback to help improve the world of Destiny. You said... [quote]Player feedback is one of the most important components of the conversation on Bungie.net[/quote] [quote]Bungie thrives on feedback. Never feel like you need to stick up for us when you see someone expressing an honest opinion about our games. We’re harder on ourselves than anyone else.[/quote] [quote]If you’d like to see new items placed on this list, start a New Topic on this Feedback board. Popular opinion matters! Topics that trend on this forum are more powerful than comments on this post.[/quote] You told us to forge our own destiny and to become legend. Well here we are, Bungie. We've purchased your game. We've spent thousands of hours in your world. We have fought the Fallen, Hive, Vex and Cabal. Travelled to Mars, the moon and Venus. We have fought in the Crucible and strived for success in Iron Banner. We have populated these forums. We have offered feedback and suggestions. We have started new topics and we have supported each other and posts and ideas for a better Destiny that we believe matter. We've done everything you have asked of us and we've given and invested ourselves in this game. And here we are with a genuine concern and feeling of exclusion and we come to these forums and reach out to you in this medium you've created for us. We've been eloquent, fair and we've made genuine efforts to educate, engage, understand and find common ground and we've grown and learned more about each other all along the way. We've poured our energy and emotions into this and in return we've been given a few stock replies, ignored and worst of all, these topics you've asked us to create, these ideas you've asked us to share, have been routinely and thoroughly censored by removing them from the 2 most visible forum tabs. We've genuinely tried reaching out to you in the hopes of finding understanding and repairing this disconnect. I've stated this before and I'll say it again. We are not adversaries. [quote]I'm really conflicted at the moment. I am so grateful for the way the community have banded together to support each other and this community desire, but I'm also genuinely saddened at the stance that has been taken against us. This was a call to reason, not war.[/quote] I never wanted to write that. I hope you're listening and I hope you come back to the table. We're not asking for you to do anything you can't, we're just asking you to consider a different point of view.

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  • Bump

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    • Keep up our fight, you are one dedicated guy thanks.

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      • Edited by Krantzstone: 6/12/2015 10:42:55 PM
        You just won yourself a new follower: kudos. More Destiny players like you are the kind of people I would be happy to friend, to be match made with in-game, and make up for the innumerable people I have had to mute, block and report on these forums (the kind of people I would not be caught dead in a Raid group with, and the main reason I am wary of LFGs). It's sad that I am pretty sure I have more people blocked, muted and reported on these forums than my entire block list on Facebook, and I've had my FB account since Facebook first opened to the general public, and I've blocked a fair number of people on there since. I am disturbed by the allegations of posts being removed, because that is exactly the wrong way to go about dealing with a public relations disaster. Bioware/EA tried it in the ME3 ending debacle and it backfired spectacularly, and was one of my primary reasons for quitting their multiplayer, despite being addicted to it and championing it for a long time (and I generally hate both co-op and PvE). It is also there that I first developed a healthy hatred of fireteams with vote kicking ability because of the way it was abused in that game, and the elitism it developed where people would kick you if you didn't have certain OP guns which were RNG-based (beginning to sound familiar?). But at least even that game had random matchmaking with the option to go in with your own fireteam. And yes, there was the occasional AFKer who had to be carried, or you left the lobby. It just pains me to see Bungie not learning from the mistakes of the past made by their peers, things that people who play multiplayer games religiously know all too well because we went through those very issues before. So when those players all tell you something is broken, something isn't right, something isn't fixed, you don't just ignore it, delete posts and try to sweep it under the rug. A good dev knows that their player base is their greatest resource and you don't ignore it, you cultivate it, nurture it, keep it healthy by communicating and interacting with it constantly, and moreover respecting their collective knowledge and experience as gamers who have sat here for hours on end playing your games, and trust them to know what's what, most particularly when a large segment of the population who have considerable knowledge and experience in gaming, are all saying the same thing. I mean, this advice is free, so why not consider it? Ditto for the hundreds of great ideas and suggestions players in the forums have made, some of which were implemented (eg. the lock on dismantling). The posts that should be getting deleted are the bigoted, hateful, offensive crap (eg. The racist trolling in the Japanese Destiny players thread) which, quite frankly, should have earned the perpetrators a lifetime ban from posting on the forums, because those people contribute nothing except hatred and toxic attitudes in the community. I really hope the powers that be take good look at what they are doing with the Destiny community and how their attitudes and treatment if said community might be increasing the frustration and alienation people are having towards the game, and the antipathy towards Bungie for these missteps.

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        • I agree - for such a repetitive grinding game matchmaking makes a lot of sense. The game's only novelty seems to be Xur's alternating locations (and having to search for him is just silly). What no longer makes sense is shelling out $$$ for Bungie ever again. I have almost stopped playing as the House of Wolves DLC ruined the existing social structure and made the raids pointless. Bungie did a good job of shooting themselves in the foot.

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          • Sorry. Nothing that will be said on behalf of Bungie will forgive DeeJs callous post. He basically said we can go -blam!- ourselves. So I say, Right back at you Bungie.

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            • This is exactly what people need. I have witnessed what you go through and talk about on an extremely smaller scale. The hate that flows through and comes out at me for an opinion I have is hard to deal with. The denial and hate when looking for a clan or someone to play with just because im a lower level is also hard to deal with. Overall it has almost made me quit destiny. It makes me happy to know I can back someone like you to help push what we want and make life inside and outside of destiny fair. Never quit fighting for what you want. You are the reason I still have hope in humanity.

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              • Your threads about matchmaking are wonderful. Since you seem to have Bungie ear, you think you can start a thread about other things this game needs? Like a story. Or CTF. Proximity Chat... just to name a few

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                • I play with anyone and everyone. I don't care if ur str8 gay bi black white have a pole or a hole. As long as ur willing to communicate, teamwork and ate last try. I will gladly play w any1. If u purposely try to fail and purposely Ty to fck us/me I will remove u. But outside that come aboard.-Tealtrapezoid (either xboxs) As for other stuff. People r so stubborn and messed up. Must be 34 n gally... U r obviously bad, u have to be a particular level (helps but not necessary), 2- u must use a crutch to do well, when all I need from people is them to work together and use anything they have

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                  • Big ol Bump

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                    • Bump

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                      • Bump

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                        • Bump!!! We have a new spokesperson who WILL support the community. *Glares at Deej*

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                          • Say it like it is! Bungie is a hate group of monkeys who are outspoken liars at most. They wanted feedback, well, here it is!

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                            • I swear, evil genius and lost sols are THE 2 most influential people on this forum, even more so than deej (not surprising) You two are this community's voice, be proud. Be brave, and keep doing what you're doing. Bump

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                              • This... this deserves an audience at a football stadium or a concert clapping at.

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                                • Bumped

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                                  • You deserve more praise. Tip my bump and like to you good sir.

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                                    • Bump

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                                      • Get this seen

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                                        • Please let bungie see this..

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                                          • Edited by SycoBoost: 6/23/2015 5:15:22 AM
                                            You truly deserve all the support the community has to offer, Sols. I really think voices like yours are what will make Bungie listen for once, if they ever will. A lot of people are gonna give up before then but I'm hoping you'll be the last because this post sheds a lot of light on what you want from this game; it's the same as anyone who wants Destiny to reach its maximum potential. It means a lot though, that your voice on the forums is so loud and clear. Here's hoping you'll have bumps to make it last. We'll fight with you till the end Here's my #bumpfortruth

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                                            • Bump

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                                              • Bump I want match making.. At the very least when I play a match made raid (LFG) I friend those who I get along with and keep playing with them.. I only see MM as an opportunity to keep players playing.

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                                                • Bumb

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                                                  • preach it. amen

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