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#feedback

Edited by Lost Sols: 12/7/2015 3:07:53 AM
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Intolerance. Gaming, Destiny and finding common ground in an online world.

[quote]Greetings fellow Guardians, I think a large number of you are aware at this point of the standoff that's been going on between a portion of the community and Bungie over the issue of matchmaking. If you've been on the forums the last week+, you know that I have been involved in this and have tried to reason along with hundreds of other guardians why this issue is so important to us. I have to admit that I was pretty down yesterday. I'd posted on Bungie's stance of not only silence, but removal of posts from the Trending and Highest Rated categories... only to have them remove it too an hour later. As I told another Guardian who found theirself angry with their post removed today, censorship sucks... but when you find you're the one being censored, it is literally like a kick in the gut and it is really hard to not take it personally. I never intended to be here writing these posts, but sometimes you end up places in life where you're given a choice. I love the game and have been a Bungie fan since '02, I don't want to be adversaries with them. So here I am reaching out to you all again (and Bungie, if they care to listen) in one more attempt to convey that we're just trying to reach the same goal of making Destiny the best game it can be. Thank you, Lost Sols[/quote] So I was thinking about all of this this morning. The mm issue, the forum censorship, the hardline stance by Bungie and the division this has caused between members of the community as well as the disconnect between us and Bungie at this point. Yesterday was a struggle and I wasn't sure what today would bring. Then at about 5:30 this morning the supportive posts started coming in and not just from those that have been backing this cause, but new voices adding their support. That helped bouy my spirits quite a bit, but then something else happened. These messages lit up. [quote]Make friends scrub[/quote] [quote]Go to computer games if you want in game matchmaking idiot.[/quote] [quote]Wow your pretty stupid why would there be in game matchmaking were playing on consoles not PCs FYI..[/quote] Nothing terribly over the top for the forums for sure. Muted one. Replied to the other two. One's response was "Queer". It opened my eyes and brought this whole week into focus. This isn't just about whether or not there should or shouldn't be matchmaking in Destiny, this is about showing tolerance for other people and points of view (and yes, it goes both ways). There's no doubt LFG and clans can be great ways to meet people and experience games with them. I don't think anyone who wants matchmaking would deny that. Something else that cannot be denied is indelibly a part of both of those avenues of meeting people is that they're both built on the foundation of not only inclusion, but exclusion as well. This isn't to draw all who use LFG or have clans under one umbrella, but a staple of both forms of grouping is intolerance, preconception and segregation. We've all read hundreds of posts along the lines of "kicked from raid for not having Gjally", "can't get into PoE because don't have Thorn", "kicked a squeaker before loot because he was annoying", etc. Now how many of the thousands of clans or LFG groups actually discriminate against people (gear, age, voice, gender, race, etc)? My guess is that whatever the %, it is far in the minority, but that brings us to the issue of matchmaking. Matchmaking is inherently everything LFG is not. There is no bias, there is no prejudice going in, there is no "must be 32, have big Gjally". Matchmaking treats everyone as equals and some may argue that's for better or worse, but I can say this for a fact. When I'm queueing for a random matchmade game, I don't care if you are old, young, black, white, Asian, straight, gay, male, female, deep voiced or a squeaker. I don't care if you're using Gjallarhorn, Dragon's Breath, Thorn, Up for Anything or any other weapon. All I care is that you try and you do your best at whatever we are trying to achieve. If you have a mic and want to talk that's great. If you just want to play and know what to do, that's great too. The argument that is waged the most against matchmaking is that people won't have mics, they won't have the right weapons, they'll be annoying, they'll be quitters, they'll be scrubs, they'll need to be carried through... The problem is that you don't know what someone is if you never give them a chance. When you tell someone they can't join your group because you don't like their gear or the sound of their voice, you have no idea who the person is that you are turning away. You don't know their capabilities, skill or willingness to do whatever the team needs. You're also not taking a chance to know someone that could potentially end up being a great friend. It's a lesson that could heal so much of what is wrong in this world if we just stopped the FEAR, stopped the HATE and stopped the MISTRUST and started giving each other a chance and realizing we're all the same. We have one life on this planet to live together the best we can, to love the best we can, to make what friends we can and provide the best life and make this world the best place it can be for our families and children. Destiny is a [i]game[/i]. If someone dies and your raid group wipes, it's not going to take food from your table, money from your pocket or draw any blood. So why get mad? Why disparage? Why not help them get better if they need it instead? We are all here because we love playing Destiny. There will always be those that are better and those that need a helping hand. There is no greater chance of coming across someone who is just a bad person in matchmaking as there is in LFG, it's just a misconception and lie perpetuated and hidden behind so people can pick and choose whom they experience content with. The maddening thing is that we are asking in these posts for an option to use matchmaking, so it would have no affect on those that didn't want to use it anyway. Not everyone is going to be a social butterfly. Not everyone is going to have any extra time to go get on their computer and LFG. Not everyone HAS a computer or smartphone to team up outside the game. Not everyone wants to be friends or in a clan, they just want someone to run and experience some content with. Maybe someone isn't talking because they are deaf. Maybe they can't reach out online because they have social anxiety disorder. Maybe they don't want to try to join a clan for fear of rejection. It doesn't matter why someone doesn't want to go outside the game to play it because that is no one's decision or right to judge but their own. Should they be punished and excluded from access to the heart of endgame play because of their reasons? That is the question everyone, including Bungie with their "Philosophy" need to look inside and ask themselves. Bungie. I've saved you for last because I'm sorry, but you've been the biggest disappointment in all of this. You created this game and asked us to populate it. You created this forum and asked us to give thoughts, opinions and feedback to help improve the world of Destiny. You said... [quote]Player feedback is one of the most important components of the conversation on Bungie.net[/quote] [quote]Bungie thrives on feedback. Never feel like you need to stick up for us when you see someone expressing an honest opinion about our games. We’re harder on ourselves than anyone else.[/quote] [quote]If you’d like to see new items placed on this list, start a New Topic on this Feedback board. Popular opinion matters! Topics that trend on this forum are more powerful than comments on this post.[/quote] You told us to forge our own destiny and to become legend. Well here we are, Bungie. We've purchased your game. We've spent thousands of hours in your world. We have fought the Fallen, Hive, Vex and Cabal. Travelled to Mars, the moon and Venus. We have fought in the Crucible and strived for success in Iron Banner. We have populated these forums. We have offered feedback and suggestions. We have started new topics and we have supported each other and posts and ideas for a better Destiny that we believe matter. We've done everything you have asked of us and we've given and invested ourselves in this game. And here we are with a genuine concern and feeling of exclusion and we come to these forums and reach out to you in this medium you've created for us. We've been eloquent, fair and we've made genuine efforts to educate, engage, understand and find common ground and we've grown and learned more about each other all along the way. We've poured our energy and emotions into this and in return we've been given a few stock replies, ignored and worst of all, these topics you've asked us to create, these ideas you've asked us to share, have been routinely and thoroughly censored by removing them from the 2 most visible forum tabs. We've genuinely tried reaching out to you in the hopes of finding understanding and repairing this disconnect. I've stated this before and I'll say it again. We are not adversaries. [quote]I'm really conflicted at the moment. I am so grateful for the way the community have banded together to support each other and this community desire, but I'm also genuinely saddened at the stance that has been taken against us. This was a call to reason, not war.[/quote] I never wanted to write that. I hope you're listening and I hope you come back to the table. We're not asking for you to do anything you can't, we're just asking you to consider a different point of view.

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  • preach it. amen

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    • Edited by WinTerIsComi1NG: 6/24/2015 1:15:28 PM
      Literally took the words right out of my mouth, this actually baffles me. Working in the financial industry has given me very little time to try and lfg on these clans and groups. When I do have time, I waste it by getting rejected due to lack of gear or experience and basically wasting any precious time I've allotted to play the game. All my characters are 30+ yet I still havent experienced certain content due to no matchmaking. Halo and CoD had it for every online gaming mode, why not Destiny? Here's my bump

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      • Lol @ bumgie they would never replied to your post but the new dlc is coming out. They are trying to hide there bad reputation to get everyone's cash. Typical.

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        • This should be trending! ... Optional matchmaking please! ... Lfg is fine for those who choose to use it, but for others that just want to play, we need a way also. It is really starting to be frustrating the more the friends I've made move on to other games. Without matchmaking, it is forcing me to follow cause I just don't like spending the time it takes to lfg for me and my son. I still enjoy Destiny, but less and less as they are literally pushing me out of their game to find people to play with.

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          • Edited by Barbatos: 6/29/2015 5:32:20 PM
            I would like to know Bungie's stance on a in-game lfg system. I haven't come across anything from them regarding this. It seems like it could be a viable solution to the optional matchmaking debate since it would serve as a middle ground between the two sides.

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            • Need to add optional matchmaking to all game modes. The lfg system is a inconvenience and slows down game play scanning forums posting for groups when you should be able to just join in game. it's likely the low community completion rates of end games raids poe ect are due to the fact people can't find groups on lfg or don't meet peoples expectations.

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              • You write this and support thorn lovers telling people to "get gud", sad contradiction.

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                • POVOTY award to you my friend (Point of view of the year) Well done

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                  • Spot on, on all the topics covered in your post. If your not a journalist, you should be.

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                    • Bump for truth

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                      • Bump TGK

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                        • bumpity boo

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                          • I'm complete shit at this game but do you want to be my friend lol finding mature people seems to be rare

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                            • Oh btw i like the balanced reasoned way you voice your ideas. Theres always going to be criticism but you remain level headed and stick to your points. I think your posts communicate how alot of us are feeling about the game so keep at it and hopefully that message will get through to bungie. I also do acknowledge that bungie is a group of very talented people but they are not perfect. I think sometimes we forget to acknowledge that and expect them to get things right then when they dont it disappoints us. Im sure it is tricky getting the balance right and maybe they could have done better but what they have done is still really good. I forget to remind myself of that when im frustrated with it and i do wish bungie did a better job in communicating to us as it certainly doesnt help us feel like they are listening. There also needs to be more action from bungie as it always speaks louder than words. Cause i think thats a big part of the problem that they say they have heard us but then months later still nothing has changed.

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                              • Its too bad you'll likely never get a Community Spotlight. Out of everyone Ive seen its just you and the Sherpa's actually putting their necks out for the Player.

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                                • I've been singing this song for a while. I had an experience the other night. I was doing poe35 with this person that was begging people to play with him, on the forums. I obliged. He was between 12-14. He had a pretty bad stuttering problem. He asked me to please not leave, cause he couldn't help his stutter. I wasn't going to anyway, but I soon understood why. We got player after play to join and laugh in this kids face, make fun of him, then quit. We did finally get a player to stay. And we were off. This kid was bad ass. Way better than myself, and I'm no slouch. After about 30 minutes of playing, I hear his father in the back ground talking to him. He said, tell Brutus (me) thank you for playing with his kid and being nice to him, because there are so many nasty people on this game. That really touched me. This kid and dad were so appreciative that I was just willing to play nice. It blew my mind. It made me think too, that this situation is exactly my MM should be an option. There are soooo many assholes on here, treating this and other kids like shit. They really shouldn't have to deal with this. I'm 35 married with a kid. I'm a pretty nice dude, Willing to help all. But there are too many that just want to be jerks. Please eliminate this phase of playing, it is very unnecessary.

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                                  • I'll cut to the chase. It is un-American to not have matchmaking. we need OPTIONAL matchmaking in every thing. So in my opinion this is the difference between having a in game matchmaking and what we use today outside of the game for group matching. Today's way of endgame matchmaking. 1-Pick up phone 2-find lfg app that's wasting space on my phone 3- find a group that doesn't require the freaking gjallarhorn because I dont have one 4- once you find the group go into the message friend option on the console 5- try to spell the extremely long and ridiculous name of the person in charge of the group. 6- wait for response 7-get no response 8- repeat steps 1 through 6 9- finally get response 10- get Into group 11- halfway through RANDOM group people go afk or group fails. 12- repeat steps 1 through 11 The way it should be...... 1- start game 2- push matchmaking button 3-play game 4-have fun The elite payers can still have their premade games, people can still solo and the none elites can have matchmaking we all win!!!! All I ask is for the option.

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                                    • Here's a chance to do something more. https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/136485193

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                                    • +1000!!! Very well said and exactly how I feel.

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                                      • I want to say, as respectfully as possible, that you are totally wrong here. And now that my personal bias is on the table... More than any other issue discussed on these forums this one, in its own subtle way, strikes to the heart of what players want this game to be. I harken back to a bygone era when I was a WoW player. "Raids" were 25-man affairs, and they were rigorous exercises in coordination. One player messes up and carries the negative polarity debuff into the positive polarity group: everyone gets wiped. One player crosses between the tank and the red nether-beam: everyone gets wiped. Show up to the raid without a mic? You get left behind. Not even controversial. I remember too playing the Spartan Ops mode that shipped with Halo 4. No mics to be found, no coordination necessary. Just a group of players who happen to be in the same area shooting the same enemies. Quite fun in its own way. And those are the two ends of the spectrum on which Destiny finds itself. One of them has automatic match-making. The other does not. The matter really at issue here is where on that spectrum Destiny ought to fall. Including automatic match-making implies that end-game content should be doable by players who aren't communicating and coordinating. At present, that isn't the case with content like the Vault of Glass, and even less so with encounters like Skolas. While the level of coordination required by a true MMORPG might be excessive in this game, it is the fact that Destiny leans in that direction that sets it apart and makes it interesting. If anything, the problem Destiny has in my mind is the failure to properly setup expectations for what the end-game should be like. Had I been designing the Strike missions, they would all culminate in boss encounters that required communication to finish. If no one talks, everyone fails. That creates the foundation for building relationships that become raid groups. That way the gap that exists, the gap that so many players have difficulty getting passed, between the match-made and end-game content is instead supplanted with a more guided progression into the socially oriented finale.

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                                        • If you believe it is fair that we deserve to not only get answers on these and other player concerns and that the community should have actual interaction with Bungie on these forums instead of the "we're listening" crap we get, please tell Bungie we're tired of them sabotaging this great game and don't log in on Bungie Day 7/7 https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/132919434/0/0

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                                          • Edited by DAST3RDLY D33DS : 7/3/2015 1:16:26 AM
                                            I leave when kids get like this. I was in VOG last week and some kid in there was really mouthy. Maybe 15 16 years of age. Asking us if we've ever done the raid before and why haven't we downed atheon yet. The kid kept dying and didn't have a decent weapon for oracles. My two buddies and myself were in full VOG gear and using VOG weapons and your asking us if we've ever done the raid? Getting all mouthy and swearing, calling people scrubs lol. I couldn't believe it. He was the same kid that said the gorgon maze was a breeze yet couldn't get through it. Oh and the best part was him telling us he got his fatebringer from the gorgon chest but didn't have it with him lol. Yeah i have a jet but I didn't fly it here. Most of the kids on this game are out of control. It's sad, quite sad

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                                          • My experience with the matchmaking in game is that the players are fine and ive had few issues. Ive had more issues with lfg players. An advantage that also shouldnt be overlooked is matchmaking is with players from your own region whereas lfg groups end up being spreadout across the globe. This has often lead to people quiting as it becomes too laggy. Im all for optional matchmaking and feel the limited matchmaking we have is working well.

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                                          • ~Customized Bump~ [b]“Better to die fighting(Spreading Light) for freedom(The True Destiny) then be a prisoner(giving dough for broken Promises) all the days of your life(until the ten year contract is up!).” [/b]~Bob Marely

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                                          • Bump

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                                          • Bump!

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