I don't think it should be nerfed. How much damage does a Thorn headshot do compared to other, similar weapons?
I usually do around 84 with a headshot, plus 35 or so over time. That comes to a total of 119. That is not that much for a headshot. I strongly believe there are guns who do more headshot damage and nobody is crying over them to be nerved. I think the Thorns problem is that people feel they get more damage when they really arent. The damage is just dealt over time instead of all at once.
The strongest ability of the Thorn, in my opinion, is that the enemies shields will not regenerate as long as the effect is active, giving you more time to deal more damage before having to deal with shields again. Also you can sometimes see where the enemies are moving behind cover because the damage will pop up even behind walls etc. Honestly those are the only two really OP things about the Thorn.
The thorn has a pretty low fire rate and it has a rather strong kickback. Yes you can activate a perk to reduce kickback, but you have to sacrifice range, which is usually not what you want. You do not want to get caught in close combat with a Thorn, you want to stay at mid-range. If you see a Thorn user, try to get close to him. He will have to pull out a shotgun or something similar, because the Thorn does not deal enough damage to quickly dispatch a close enemy.
It is certainly a good weapon and it can feel rather OP, but it all comes down to how you deal with the situation. If you get a headshot from a sniper from across the map, there is no real counterplay. If you get one-shotted with a shotgun from around the corner, there is no real counterplay. (Besides, of course, not to get yourself into that situation)
You have plenty of counterplay with Thorn.
First of all it is pretty easy to figure out if somebody is using Thorn. The sound is unique and if you get hit you will know.
I am a Thorn user and I will give you guys some advice. You should probably be able to figure this out on your own.
If you get hit by a Thorn or hear a Thorn go off in your general area, do a quick retreat, locate the Thorn user, then get in his face before he can get a good angle at you. If he is experienced enough he will switch to secondary.
tl;dr
Thorn is not OP, you trade damage over time for slow fire rate and not to underestimate kickback.
Edit: I am getting some replies here, and I would like to add that I respect all your opinions. This here post is my own opinion, not based on months of research. If you have other information please post it. I am not saying this is the ultimate truth. But I believe that I am right. Does not mean I might not be wrong so lets keep it civilized and talk about this. :) I appreciate the discussion!!
Edit: I might add that I never had the feeling that I get killed more by thorn than other weapons.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1L7FV9l4hXo2tHD3XlFUp854XvJIwTKFIPvASLduPPS4/htmlview?usp=sharing&sle=true
If you take a look at this, the Thorn is Top tier but not OP tier. (By exxtrooper from Reddit)
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TLW with its perk activated only does 111 :/
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But the last word shoots faster, or am I wrong?
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You just said 119 is not strong for a headshot........ A max impact Timurs can do 95.
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Again, the Thorn is an exotic weapon. How much damage does Hawkmoon do per headshot? And how much with luck in the chamber?
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That is probably because your sniper was had a low damage rating or u where a low level. Thorn also has a very quick fire rate and little recoil even without perfect balance. It is also two shots most of the time
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Edited by Mormn Aslt Vhcl: 6/4/2015 12:42:31 AMHawkmoon does 94 and with the luck in the chamber I think 109.... And that's rarely. Lol and it's "exotic" too. The gun thorn is OP man.
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Hawkmoon does 95 per head and 126 with luck but that is called luck not always
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That's a lot of justification for a gun you know is OP.
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119 is massive for a headshot. The only other weapons in the game that can match that are snipers and shotguns
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I do 164 damage with a headshot from a non exotic sniper in ToO and that does not kill the target. The Thorn is an exotic weapon which will take the slot you could fill with other weapons. It is supposed to be powerful but it cant one shot you, not even two shot you most of the time.
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Edited by MiltonTheMango: 6/4/2015 12:42:42 AMWrong person sorry
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I think that the recoil on thorn is pretty significant without the perk. The fire rate isnt the worst but there are far better ones, I think. ABout the sniper you might be right though. I rarely get people in two shots with the thorn.
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The only other hand cannon that can fire faster is the last word, I think.
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Yes. According to this spread sheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1L7FV9l4hXo2tHD3XlFUp854XvJIwTKFIPvASLduPPS4/htmlview?usp=sharing&sle=true The time to kill is not actually very different from lots of other hand cannons but it is definitely in the top tier. As it should be, being an exotic.
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An exotic status should not and can never justify a weapon being more powerful than the rest in an evened out pvp environment like the crucible. Doesn't matter how hard it is to get for some people, if it's better than the others, then the weapon balance is broken and variety gone with it.
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ToO isn't evened out Crucible lol.
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I don't see trials saying "Weapon advantages enabled". Like it pretty much says so for level advantages. Thorn is the same gun for both.
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But that is exactly what is happening with most exotics in the game. Lots of exotics have perks or something else that makes them superior to the other weapons. That is why you can only have one. Everybody can chose one exotic to give their loadout that extra kick. I dont think its a problem. Destiny is not meant to be balanced.
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Stopped reading after 'strongly believe theres stronger headshots' Get proof
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I am sorry, might I first ask for all the proof from people who claim that Thorn is OP? I am not going to test head shots in the Crucible, I speak from experience and not from research. If you have other information, post it.
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All you have to do is play pvp and see that 80% of people play thorn.. Just like when suros was op.
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Well I see some people with thorn usually but nothing close to 80%. I usually have one or two thorn users in a match. But maybe that is just regional. I usually get killed by Shotguns or Supers.
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Thorn has the same fire rate as Word of Crota, which hits for 77 (iirc) and has no DoT.
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Yes, you are right, but Word of Crota is a horrible PVP weapon and should not be used by anyone, EVER.
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Noted. But that the impact/RoF ratio is off for Thorn was my point. Other HCs follow that pattern