Why complain about Thorn. Red Death is a 2 shot killer with health regen. I can take out 3 at a time with it. Mida is a 3 shot kill with stagger. Once you hit some one with Mida they never get to shoot you back. And it kills very quickly. My fav weapon at the moment is Mida as it stops thorn users from getting a second shot. And yes I do have a thorn but choose not to use it because I am not very good with a HC.