Just saying a lot of people are saying Thorn is the best for PvP but none that many people went up against a Red Death user of equal skill. Red Death > Thorn in the hands of someone that is as good as you. Red Death's stability doesn't go to poop when under fire unlike Thorn. Thorn > Red Death if the Red Death user sucks more than you but if you fought yourself.. Red Death would win unless you can't use pulse rifles.. In which case you should learn to use pulse rifles :) They have fun perks (Bad Juju) and other abilities that are useful (Red Death) that makes them viable but not that many people know the true pain they can inflict in a crucible match. Trust me when I say Red Death is very underestimated when compared to Thorn. We need to fear it just like how Vanguard has!