[quote]Four things make the thorn a bit too much of a force to be reckoned with in the crucible. 1. One headshot takes down atleast 2/3rds of a guardians health.[/quote] So does one from Saterienne Rapier, Red Death, 3 Little Words and a hundred other weapons. [quote]2. It more then doubles the time it should take for your health to regenerate if you get hit by it.[/quote] Proof? The poison lasts maybe half a second, then health regen is normal. [quote]3. The range barely sees a falloff in damage due to the Burn damage.[/quote] The burn barely adds any damage. Of they're at range, you should be able to easily take cover when the burn effect hits your screen. [quote]4. It's a 3 body shot kill with burn where most handcannons would require three precision shots to accomplish a kill.[/quote] It's also not a particularly fast RoF weapon and three precision shots from just about anything can beat it first. Head to head Abyss Defiant can kill Thorn quicker than Thorn can kill AD. [quote]A reasonable adjustment to the thorn would be these two things. 1. Make precision shots required to have the burn damage kick in.[/quote] Do people actually die to Thorns burn that much? I'm genuinely curious because I couldn't tell you the last time I did. The effect on screen screams[i] take cover[/i]. It makes it pretty easy to avoid. [quote]2. If the thorn user dies the DoT should stop.[/quote] If Thorn didn't have the DoT, it would literally never be used because it's the only thing keeping the weapon from being complete trash.

Are you seriously trying to say the thorn does all of its damage ticks in a time span of a half second? And the guns you mentioned do only 1 half of the players health in damage if all the bullets from the burst connect. With the thorn only one bullet has to hit. More consistent then a burst. And as for the rapier, last I checked it doesn't do over 100 damage for a single precision shot. Also this head to head abyss defiant argument is crap. Here's a ttk chart. If the player with the thorn is a good shot versing a player with the abyss defiant being a good shot aswell the thorn will win the majority of the time. (Ttk chart below) The person you killed with your abyss defiant obviously had terrible aim. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1L7FV9l4hXo2tHD3XlFUp854XvJIwTKFIPvASLduPPS4/htmlview?pli=1

You can put up all the spreadsheets you want and pull any stat you want out of them. It's not going to make your Thorn able to top my Coiled Hiss in PvP. Let's start with the fact that TTK numbers are talking tenths and hundredths of seconds. Then let's factor in that magazine size is it's own huge advantage. You may have a harder hitting weapon, but in a firefight with ducking, jumping and strafing, having an AR with a large magazine negates any advantage your weapon has because you'll need to reload much faster. Back to Coiled Hiss, what good is your Thorn if I have a much more accurate and stable weapon that can easily land 3 headshots before you can land 2 of anything? The best you're hoping for is we both die. Last but not least, I went 1v1 AD vs Thorn tonight in IB and firing at the same time, I killed them first. So tell that to your chart.

A full second of faster ttk can be a game breaker. The thorn is capable of a faster ttk the the majority of all the primaries in the game (and quite easy to handle I should know I went 9-0 in trials 3 times using the thorn primarily) if someone with a good aim is using a thorn it's not good for the player vsing said thorn user. I would very likely win the majority of my fights against you if you were using the coiled hiss versus the almighty thorn. You would need to hope that all three bursts fully connect where I would just need to shoot two quick easy shots then hide. The thorn needs some slight tweaks.

Lol, I'd sure like to think there's someone out there with one that could at least give a good fight.

Also, you'd need to pray you landed 2 headshots because I can get 3 busts off faster than you can land 2 shots.

If that were the case the coiled hiss would have a better ttk then the thorn. Several play tests and times tracked have confirmed the thorn is capable of two headshot quicker then the coiled hiss can Land 3 bursts.

Again, the game isn't played in test environments and there are hundreds of different perk combos of legendaries. Play tests don't factor 3rd Eye letting me get 2 bursts off before you can get one. They don't factor Glass Half Full, Headseeker, various stability or range setups. They also don't factor that we're not relegated to just primaries as our only means of attack. Golden Gun is a OHK, but it's TTK isn't going to make sh*t for a difference if a trip mine goes off behind them and they take a scout round to the dome. No one is saying Thorn is bad. No one is saying Thorn isn't great in capable hands. All I'm saying is that Thorn is no less beatable than any other weapon in this game.