Thorn isn't that gnarly. People just want the game handed to them. They will complain about anything in there way. Nerf the thorn and something else will be complained about. Buff the auto rifles? Lol red death with still kill them and thorn users. I look at everyone who complains about the thorn especially when it comes to iron banner or trials and the results aren't really surprising. 1. Most aren't 34 a lot aren't 33 2. Weapon choice- over soul edict, fang, or vendor specific primary's 3. Weapon level- 300 vog gear and 331 tdb gear Now to explain 1. Iron banner and trials are level base so when you're a 31-32-33 going again 34 you're at an immediate disadvantage. 2. Some just don't understand that some weapons are made for pve and some are made for pvp. 3. Again level based. Your 300 and 331 weapons put you at a major disadvantage. Get to 34 get exotic primary's until you get etheric light to level your legendarys. Then play these level based game modes.