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This thread is inspired by another: view original post
Edited by UnassuminMoomin:
6/15/2015 11:18:47 AM
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Proposing a Tweak to the Thorn and Respecting its Identity...
First off, I understand that exotic weapons need to feel powerful and satisfying as an extension of that. That came from Bungie themselves, I believe. And I agree - you get to use one exotic (weapon) at a time, it SHOULD feel powerful, powerful enough to be your choice for your one exotic slot.
But when I see teams (in Trials, I mean, where it's highly competitive) armed across the board with Thorns, I think that's a red flag.
In my personal experience, I think I see about 50% of enemy teams' members sporting a Thorn. And it's for a reason, too: fairly high capacity magazine, above average accuracy and fire rate and even stability (with the perk), and insane damage that can lead to a two-shot potential given enough burn time between shots. I would mention reload speed but I don't think that's as critical, especially since that may vary due to armor perks and such.
My point is this - I think the burn effect is too powerful (IN PvP!). The fact that the Thorn can allow a player to write-off an enemy at low health who is burning is just too over the edge in my opinion.
[b]So here's my proposal. [i]Keep the burn.[/i] However, I think the burn should not apply damage to health ("Red bar"), and only to shields ("white bar"). BUT, the effect should still prevent shields from recharging for the duration of the burn.[/b]
This way, the Thorn still has scary damage to shields and a lasting punch for its first shot, but no one would ever die from a Thorn-burn (death from burns should be reserved for class abilities, in my opinion ex. Incendiary Grenade, Scorch, etc.).
While perhaps only a [u]slight[/u] nerf, I think that would be the best course of action before taking more drastic measures against the Thorn, especially since it would keep the weapon's identity intact - one that is able to put an enemy out of a fight after taking fire, unless they risk themselves to receiving a killing blow.
If that proved insignificant towards the Thorn's overall power I'm sure other aspects of it could be nerfed, possibly having the burn's duration work inversely with the distance the shot traveled (the farther the target, the less time the burn lasts).
Thoughts?
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1 ReplyLeave Thorn. Buff Suros and ARs. Suros and Red Death with their healing capabilities are the perfect counters to Thorn, just as ARs are perfect counters to Hand Cannons in general. Some people say scouts are fine, I think a slight precision buff wouldn't be out of the question, just to make them more rewarding marksmen weapons.
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3 RepliesEdited by MAD X H0USE: 6/15/2015 3:32:58 PMLave the burn the way it is. Reduce Ammo count back to 5 rounds, reduce reload speed back to "Slow-as--blam!-" Thorn only became a plague in the Crucible when it became easier to use by the (for lack of a more appropriate term) scrubs. I had Thorn back in the day, and while it was still just as deadly as it is now, it was a hell of a lot harder to actually be of much success while using it. You couldn't just spray bullets all over the place with little to no consequence like you can now. Bungie pretty much took the only "balancing factors" of the weapon (Low Mag, Slow Reload) and completely trivialized them because too many people felt that Thorn was too HARD to use. Now, it's weapon of choice because it's literally become overpowered and user-friendly. SO... While Bungie's overreaction is partially to blame, the community criers are infinitely more responsible for the imbalance.
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3 RepliesI rarely die from Thorn burn because I've adapted to hiding after getting hit once. Maybe you should try a similar strategy and stop trying to make the game easier for people who can't handle the challenge. Some of us really enjoy going up against a team full of Thorn users with Jewel's and Lash's and wiping the smiles off of their young faces. It's not the gun that needs an adjustment, it is your play style, and I mean that sincerely.
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1 ReplyJust turn the burn effect into a lifesteal effect.
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1 ReplyThat's actually pretty good. So that people can't two shot then run, they have to take out the red bar with a shot.
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I think it still needs to remain easy to use but a way to nerf it would be to remove send it and replace that with something else like field scout.
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13 RepliesFinnishMoose, what do you think of Red Death and The Last Word? I personally started using Thorn to fix my aim (used mostly auto rifles before that). I understand people complaining about Thorn, but I don't understand they ONLY complain about Thorn. I think Thorn, The Last Word and Red Death are "The Big Three" at this moment. If Thorn gets "fixed", The Last Word and Red Death should be too. At least that's what I think. Red Death is by the way the answer to Thorn's DOT. If I have a one on one with a Red Death player and he kills me first he gets health regen immediately, cancelling Thorn's DOT.
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Edited by x Silver cRoW x: 6/15/2015 6:15:06 PMAnother idea I read was that the burn only would take effect on critical shots which would help balance it. After playing against it a lot recently I feel like it needs less range too.
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4 RepliesThe very existance of exotics isn't compatible with the task of balancing a game for pvp. Thorn is strong/OP for a number of reasons: - the only DOT you can apply unlimited times and super easy, meaning you can regenerate, they cannot and you can track them. - the AP-bullets can hit multiple targets, applying the DOT to all of them -bullet dmg and DOT dmg together come to 119, a super high value, coupled with the highest fire rate for HCs (except for TLW) - The dmg dropoff at higher ranges seems a LOT less for handcannons than for other weapons, they are effective at all practical ranges. My fix: less effective range, get rid of penetration, allow DOT to dmg health, but not finish off a target.
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Agree
