I've read this post twice now and I completely agree with you, no weapon is unbeatable I'd had the same debate with a number of other people and they just get so mad they lose all sense and from my experience you never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. Thorns clearly a good gun, but the user is the key here bad user = no kills and lots of deaths....Thorn is a reward for a relatively easy bounty but you have to be half decent to do it (unless you camped in a corner with a shotgun). This generally means its owners are a bit more skilled or tactical in using this and against average players they will often come off on top. Thorn is a defensive gun and the trials is a defensive game so naturally it will be up there with the adept weapons as peoples first choice.... I'm not a great Crucible player (ive played less than 100 games) and my K/D is 1.28 overall and whilst doing the thorn bounty I used the word of Crota and killed thorn users, the last word users, vex, suros at one stage I killed 2 hunters simultaneously trying to use golden gun on me....it doesn't make the word of Crota OP it just means I see them first and made my shots count and stayed calm. I think if the pvp was more stable (no lag), if they were playing against people of a similar level they would get more kills and feel less bitter about losing or dying a lot and they would naturally enjoy it more. Nerfing things doesn't make people happy it just moves them on to complain about something else.