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7/11/2015 6:05:21 AM
10
There are several problems with match making for raids and I thank God bungie has the wisdom to see this.
Problem 1. Low level people who will want to "high jack" into a game and steal hard earned work.
Problem 2. The right components won't be aquire 5 out of 10 times. I don't like the people that say need ghallahorn more than anyone else, but there's a reason It's asked for, not just ghallahorn either good weapons in general. Same with classes.
Problem 3. No kicking. Idk about you but I don't want to be with some a hole that does nothing and f*cks over the other 5.
Problem 4. Communication, not everyone has a working mic, so even with game chat (assuming it works) they may not be able to communicate thus POTENTIALLY key word POTENTIALLY screw everyone else over. I'm sorry but that's just not fair.
Problem 5. Bad class mixes, you could easily end up with not enough of one class, or too much of a certain class, one of every class AT LEAST is usually needed if not it definitely helps.
Problem 6. People who will leave after a certain cp because there will be zero sense of obligation, this could easily trigger problems 1-5.
The list goes on and on but eh for now I feel my point is made...
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Many of the reasons why matchmaking would be hard to implement for raids are because much of the raid difficulty hinges on subtractive and unintuitive design. In other words, instead of actually increasing complexity and depth, they take things away from us to make it harder. For instance, the complete lack of nav point direction and the utterly bizarre disappearance of our ghost as our guide means Bungie removed two of the fundamental elements of this game that streamline it so that we can focus on other challenges. I believe the puzzle-solving element was supposed to be present in raids, but the vast majority of raid players have never had to solve any of the puzzles on their own, because they've either depended on other players or on YouTube (which is depending on other players). This means these raid challenges have only ever been solved by a very small number of players. I'd propose that Bungie release a version of each raid per usual, but then, after a month, they streamline it for a matchmaking experience by including nav point directions and Dinklage guidance. And I'd like to see this be retroactive to include VoG, CE, and PoE. tl;dr: the only reason end-game content would be troublesome in matchmaking is because Bungie designed them to be troublesome for matchmaking. But this could be remedied by continuing the design principles of the game and by taking an additive approach (versus the current subtractive approach) to increasing difficulty and depth. With nav points and Dinklage direction, raids would be more straightforward, and matchmaking groups would be able to concentrate on executing tasks instead of solving mysteries. Furthermore, to maintain the puzzle-solving experience, when a new raid comes out, Bungie could give it the classic treatment but then add the streamlined version for matchmaking a month later. Honestly, it isn't that hard of a concept. Bungie is just resisting it because they want to preserve that subtractive, unintuitive difficulty element, which is their prerogative, but the end-game content could absolutely be fun and rewarding in a matchmaking environment.
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Sounds like you're really suggesting a lower level for raids to help the less resourceful players. Which I could agree with. I know my girlfriend would never raid unless she had something like that. Vault of Glass [Easy Mode] with less rewards or something just to get people acquainted!
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Not at all. The raids aren't really hard. They're just unintuitive. I'm suggesting they design the raids to be consistent with the game in terms of enabling players with the knowledge they need, instead of trying to trick players. I'm suggesting that, instead of taking things away from us to create a challenge, they actually increase difficulty in an additive way.
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I agree basically with 100% of what you said, but they can't add anymore dinklage because he is busy with a lot of other things. And if they did add something like nav points, they wouldn't really help. wouldn't help it would just hurt. Also the reason matchmaking won't work is because of the community, the minute they run into a problem with matchmaking (biggest worry is trolls, say picking up the relic and not letting it go.) They will flock to the forums and whine and whine and whine some more, it's what 50% of this community does. Even if they wouldn't it still wouldn't work for numerous reasons. Trust me on this one. I played a game called everquest next to maybe WoW its probably the first game to introduce a raid. In EQ a raid force is 50+! They're a lot more frustrating to form, to do, and everything in between. The fastest any group has beaten a raid in EQ is 2 hours with a highly disciplined crew. And yet Sony the owner of EQ for well over half of EQ'S "career" has never introduced matchmaking. Even though the number of people that are inconvenienced by the lack of MM are easily double destiny's number of people that are inconvenienced by the lack MM. even though half the problems that destiny's matchmaking system would run into aren't there (communication it's on the pc so people can type with ease in group and even raid chat). The main point is if a game like EQ which needs it twice has much has destiny with half the problems and hasn't introduced it in its 20+ year run! what makes you think destiny needs it? (This is an honest question) the only valid reasons I've heard are that 1.) Going on a website is bs (which it kinda is) 2.) Time. Which matchmaking has a potential to either fix or make worse (bad group would easily make up the difference).
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Playing devils advocate, playing my warlock when she was about 8 trying to do phogoth I got matched with a 7 and another 8. Now she goes in as a 34 doing the lvl 8 I get paired with other 34s and 33s. Raid matchmaking would get people out there easier, but it is 2015, get on your laptop or smart phone and get on lfg, I'll still use it if matchmaking comes because like you said, communication is key.
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Solution 1: level requirement to enter raid matchmaking (25 for Easy VoG, 28 for Hard VoG, etc.) Solution 2: Many strategies can be concieved. Ghallajhorn and Sunsinger Warlocks are good to have on hand, but they are not the only answer to completing VoG. Solution 3: What? Are you asking to get rid of the kicking option or are you just being sarcastic? Solution 4: Potential, sure. Hence the kick option when he does screw you over. Solution 5: Read Solution 2. Solution 6: Invite a friend who's online, hit up the LFG site or press on. I've finished VoG and CE with 4 people before. It's harder, but possible. Point made? Sure. Not exactly convincing, though.
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You have made your point as to why you would not use matchmaking, but not why it shouldn't be implemented as an option. Matchmaking, or lack of, is the reason I've played one nightfall in the past month. I'm tired of going on forums and sites to find a group, only to find out that the group for what I want to play is full. I just want to play the game. Is that too much to ask?
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Because I'm not selfish? I understand that l these problems will pretty much be everyone elses, so I don't want other people being screwed over. Then as soon has they are screwed over this forum will be flooded with complaints like "whoever thought this was a good idea?" Or "I don't like matchmaking (insert insult to bungie here)" stuff like that...
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I'm not saying you're selfish and by no means do I hope that you think I was attacking your opinion, but in all reality if someone has an issue with the matchmaking then they simply don't have to use it. It should however at least be an option. I've been in bad groups I've found on the forums, and I've been in really great groups. The only difference would be the time it takes to start the game. I really like destiny, and I want to be able to play when I can, but my patience for finding a group has grown slim. I just want to play the game that I bought.
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Oh I'm so sorry if that came off like I thought you were attacking my opinion :). I realize it's really hard to tell tone online.
