The physical changes followed perfectly the predictions put forth for the experiment. No the lizards did not experience speciation, but the sepreate populations did start evolving in differences which is what leads to a speciation event. That's the point. [quote]And you conclude that if the speciation isn't visible, it must be internal[/quote] This sentence makes no sense. Speciation is the description of two populations of organisms becoming so different that they can no longer produce fertile offspring. I'll try and address what I think you're poorly saying. Internal changes matter just as much as external ones. They're just as visible during a dissection as external changes are. I'm not sure what you think speciation is. But your visibility statement still makes no sense. Your definition of kind is a personal one not shared or agreed upon by anyone. So your definition is meaningless. Which is the entire point that I go on to illustrate by throwing around more made up defintions. It's called an example, which I don't think you grasped at all. Family is a subjective taxonomic classification, and new ones can be added or old ones removed as new species are discovered and things are reevaluated. Taxonomy is merely a way of organizing that changes often, not a definitive end all be all. The lizards are an example of the beginning steps of speciation, not complete speciation, true. The point is though it's more evidence in favor of the current evolutionary understanding. I also really like you ignore all the other well documented speciation events in the article I shared. As for God, you can't even demonstrate, give evidence, or even hint at the universe needing an [u]infinite[/u] cause. Like I said, God of the gaps isn't God. It's just fairy tales to fill your gaps in understanding. Also, cut the gish gallop crap.