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originally posted in:Binary Star Cult
8/6/2015 11:38:53 AM
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The theory of Traveler=Evil isn't fairly new but definitly posses some truth in it. Allow me to present a more grey-ish thoery. First we need to consider each specie we encounter as "factions", what I mean by faction is just the regroupment of individual or some can say "sides" even maybe alliances. In my opinion there is two main sides and several smaller ones. We have the Traveler and the Darkness which seem to be entities "helping" forms of life to progress in the universe. The Traveler appears to be a sort of "technology provider" and help species which are sufficiently developped to reach their full potential (if not, why bother waiting on Mars to be reached by three humans?) by providing marvels and new techs and biological advancements. The Darkness, in the other hand seems to prefer a more "brutal" way where selected species have to fight against other existing species in order to become stronger, wiser, and more advanced. It applies very well to the Hive which followed this kind of path according to Toland (There is a Grimoire Card describing the process, sorry for not providing it). The Darkness doesn't have a particular quarrel with the Traveler, it just follows its plan and sometimes those two philosophies collides. And Falls happen when it's the case. We only call it Darkness because it is aggresive toward us and the Traveler, that's just the name we put on it. According to the Grimoire and Variks, the Fallen were a specie helped by the Traveler in the past but when the Darkness came with its species (maybe the Hive), due to its more pacific side, the Traveler left (Kind of a Dickmove if I may say). The Fallen tried to fight against the Darkness but were finally forced to run. They decided to follow the Traveler in order to regain their power and maybe defeat the Darkness. Due to the travelling time and other unknown circumstances, they reached our system during our Fall. Since then, they want the Traveler back and think they have to prove they are worthy of the Traveler again (remember what I say about waiting to be found on Mars? Maybe that was when WE proven to be worthy). So, why the Traveler didn't runaway once again when the Darkness finally arrived in our system? We didn't let it go. More specifically, Rasputin and maybe the other Warminds used force against the Traveler in order to avoid its leave.(as far as the actual theory goes, Dickmove on our part) That's why the Traveler is so weak since the Fall, that's why he created the Guardians and the Ghost. Knowing that it'll not be able to leave in time, it created something to protect itself and make sure it can survive, and us with it by extension. And since the Fall we kept this kind mutual benefit situation until we can retaliate or push back the Darkness. All this means that Humanity and Fallen are more or less on the same "side", the Traveler's side but we just don't like each other or don't understand each other because, after all, we are different species with different ways to think. The Hive in the other hand seems to be the actual Darkness "champion" specie, the one it try to make evolve by "fire". But what about the Cabals? The Vex? I call them the Neutral Species or the Collateral species. The Cabals first, they're fleeing the Hive. It was not clear until the Taken King annoncement but in the Grimoire it's several times implied they are running away from something terrible. But they don't appear to be in relation with the Traveler either. Maybe they never crossed path with it or never proven to be worthy of it or whatever. They just are an alien specie which evolved by itself without be influenced by a "faction" and are currently trying to survive. They have now a particular interest in the Vex technology and/or the Black Garden maybe because it is sometime described as a place for protecting species? They also deeply want the Golden Age technology in order to retro-fit it and find a way to save themselves. The Vex are the most mysterious of all. We don't know when they appear, where and how. We just know that they can transform planets in machines, guard the Black Garden and are able to time travel. They were following their own agenda until the Darkness arrival. Here, I'm about to throw the most speculative part of my theory so brace yourselves. We know that the Darkness has interest in promising 'combative' species. What could be more interesting than a specie capable of time travel? So the Darkness invaded their 'home', the Black Garden and used its force to make them "workshipping" it. Maybe the Vex were following antoher goal like terraforming all the system like Mercury in order to totally be independant of Time, maybe the Vault of glass is a prison where the "rebels" against the Darkness are kept, who knows? But what is very strange is the form of the Heart in the Black Garden, a sort of moving shapeshifting orb which can sometime "look" like the Traveler. Hence, people saying that there is an "evil twin" Traveler or even that the Traveler is Evil in the future and such. But if you listen closely some of Variks lines in the Reef, one of it is "Would you like to hear the stories? The stories about the Shape Shifters?". Can it be the Darkness form? A shape shifting entity capable of deceiving other species? Shape shifting is a very good survival strategy, juste look at cephalopodes or cuttlefish. Here is an even more crazy theory: the Vex were tools/specie designed by the Traveler long time ago (for what? I don't know) and capable of time traveling. Upon its arrival, the Darkness discovered their existence and became interested in such a specie. It decided to "acquire" it by deceiving them and shape-shifted in a false Traveler. The Vex, seeing their "God" return, decide to obey and start following its instruction. You want a crazier theory? Here it comes: We beat the Hive in the future and the Darkness decides to find another specie to support/help and Oh look! the Vex! let's take control of them and travel back and forward in time in order to avoid the defeat of the Hive and hence, controlling two very powerful and advanced species! Fewwwww! Sorry for the long post and I appreciate every feedback about this theory.
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  • Edited by Akuma Matatta (Adept): 12/26/2015 5:06:34 PM
    Very well thought out. I was curious as to why the servitors of the fallen resembled another giant sphere we're all accustomed to. I had thought that a long time ago the vex might have actually created the traveler, but as the traveler seems to be sentient to some degree; perhaps it had other plans for itself than the vex wanted. (Victor Frankenstein anyone?) I felt it would make sense seeing how even our technology, as of now, pales in comparison to theirs. And it's stated that there are others. Both the traveler and the vex can terraform a planet if desired so my thought process was that the vex had intended on using these "farmers" to terraform planets to their desire. Perhaps the darkness is another sentient "traveler-type" who's philosophies and thoughts clashed with our traveler on how the various species found on these planets should be handled. No two sports coaches are going to have the exact same philosophy on how their teams should be coached and it's evident when the opposing teams collide...only one team can win.

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  • The traveler was not waiting to be found on Mars, he was teraforming, as he did to the planets beyond it. This is not only supported by the grimoire of the astronaut that piloted the ship but the beginning cutscene of the game. Rasputin also refers to the traveler as the gardener, also as a she.

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  • Nice theories, the parts with the Traveler's past with the Fallen and Rasputin's actions are in all likeliness true. However, we don't really know the nature of the Traveler and the Darkness. Guardians are told that all the enemies they face are the Darkness. The story (if we can indeed call Destiny's missions a story) seems to imply that the Black Garden was the epitome of the Darkness, and that the Vex are the most devout minions of the Darkness. Of course, the Hive seem more related to actual darkness, so it shows how no concrete conclusions can really be made in this regard at this point.

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  • Edited by Mirariel: 8/11/2015 9:01:06 AM
    Yep totally agree with you, nothing can be certain at this point and Darkness is just Darkness because it seems aggresiv toward us. And yes Vex are certainly the most devoted ennemies we encounter but what is bothering me about them is when we learn that they have dormant machines on every planet (during the last mission on mars) and also the capacity to teleport everywhere in the galaxy in an instant (campus K9 mission I think). Why not just overun the Earth? Even if the Traveler is Evil, erasing humanity and securing itself wih the Vex could be a good strategy in order to wait for it to be functional again. Well, we'll see in time when Bungie will add more Lore. Anyway, Thank you for reading me and taking the time to discuss it.

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  • Maybe just maybe the Traveler is vex. Maybe just maybe that's why the black garden mission comes from our only non-Tower affiliated source. Maybe just maybe our ghosts are just tiny restorative minds and the Traveler is causing golden age booms on different systems to see what technology new races can come up with, then absorb that tech and destroy the civilization through "collapse" as a way to ease the vex assault / minimize collateral intellectual damage from destroying pre-golds age worlds...?

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