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Edited by Rick:
8/7/2015 2:22:48 PM
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So which is it? Is sin necessary in order for there to be love/good? Because if there is no sin and heaven how is there love and freewill?
Think about it. Based on your own admission, sin has no reason for existing. Why, then, did god create evil according to Isiah 45:7?
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."
Even more so, why is a blood sacrifice necessary to forgive you for the sin that god created according to his will?
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Sin isn't necessary, but it's a side effect. God existed for eternity past without sin and yet he could've chosen to sin. And the "evil" talked about in Isaiah isn't moral evil, it's natural evil, as in natural disasters. That doesn't mean that every natural disaster is puppeteered by God, but he does use them sometimes for his purposes. Mostly judgement. When you are both again, the Holy Spirit dwells inside you. He works on you through the conviction of sin to help rid you of sinful desire. So when you're in heaven, the combination of the holy spirit and being in the literal presence of God the Father and our saviour Jesus Christ, we will have no desire to sin, but we will still have a choice.
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You still haven't answered the question. Does everything happen according to god's will? If so, that includes sin. If you're saying god didn't create sin, and that something can happen that wasn't god's will, then what does it mean to be god? And is sin possible in heaven? You say we have a choice, but if it's not possible then it sounds more like you are a robot in heaven. Remember, you said there is no sin in heaven. Also, why does god like sacrifice? That doesn't sound very godly. Well, actually it does. Is sounds just like all the other primitive god ideas of the past. Try and objectively think about the fact that the whole story is god sacrificing himself, to himself, to forgive people for something that he created, was his plan from the beginning, and is all according to his will.
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God doesn't will everything to happen, but he can use everything that happens to accomplish his will. And we will have a choice in heaven, but even if we didn't, we chose to submit to God and give up our free will, but that's not biblical. And he doesn't like sacrifices, but they show us the severity of sin.
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So god is subject to outside forces then? Who/what controls that?
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What are you talking about? He can allow things to happen that he doesn't necessarily want to happen so as to not violate the free will of his creation. He could violate free will, but he chooses not to.
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So if he allows something bad to happen, did he know it was going to happen? Was it not his will to let it happen? If god already knows, and everything happens according to his will, then bad things were predestined. You couldn't choose to do something that wasn't god's will. Your "free choice" is an illusion at that point. So, did god create sin or not? That's a yes or no question. We've already established that sin is not necessary for free will. So if god created sin, then he is evil. If he didn't, then what did? You've already bent scripture to fit your own desired outcome. The Bible says god created evil. There is not such thing as "natural evil" vs "moral evil." You made that up.
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No I didn't make anything up. You are theologically illiterate. I'm not bending Scripture at all. And I've answered all your questions. You are desperately searching for justification of your unbelief. http://bible.com/100/1co.2.14-16.nasb But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one. For who has known the mind of the L ord , that he will instruct H im ? But we have the mind of Christ.
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Edited by Rick: 8/7/2015 4:12:52 PMNice try. Please show the distinction between "natural evil" and "moral evil." Isiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." Your god character creates evil. You can't reconcile this with your belief so you ignore it. The character is evil. Thankfully, it's all fictional any way. Just pointing out your hypocrisy and ignorance of your own religion. "Justification for unbelief?" Seriously? None of it has been demonstrated to be true at all. No "Justification" required. Believing in things that haven't been demonstrated to be true makes you a fool.
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Words are hard, right? Making fallacious arguments based off of a single word from a single translation with zero context is intellectually dishonest and downright foolish. http://www.gotquestions.org/Isaiah-45-7.html
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So does god create evil or not? You still won't answer that. If he doesn't, then who/what does? Does ANYTHING happen that isn't according to god's will? Why do you refuse to answer this?
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I've answered it many times.
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No, you haven't. You're just outright lying now. You haven't answered it.
