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8/7/2015 3:46:13 PM
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Better to have a subset of weapons and armor, call them "exotics" for example. Those weapons and armor can be unique and grow with guardians through each expansion without needed to balance every single new weapon against every single weapon from the game's past. Other games leave weapons behind because it is [i]exponentially more difficult[/i] to maintain that balance with each batch that is released. Would you prefer there be fewer new items in favor of another ascension system? We all know how satisfying gearing on House of Wolves has been. Oh wait, it hasn't been satisfying at all! Once we ascended our favorites there is nothing to work towards.
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  • [quote]Would you prefer there be fewer new items in favor of another ascension system? We all know how satisfying gearing on House of Wolves has been. Oh wait, it hasn't been satisfying at all! Once we ascended our favorites there is nothing to work towards.[/quote] Save for ToO weapons (which are highly coveted), Bungie did a very poor job of making HoW items appealing in any way. If there was a low adoption rate of new items, that is why. End game players didn't want to invest in poorly conceived guns.

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  • Yes, but that is only in the context of an ascension system being available. Most weapons from The Dark Below were disappointing compared to their vanilla equivalents. From faction and Vanguard weapons to raid weapons. However, people used them because they had higher attack. If ascension had existed at The Dark Below, people would have kept using vanilla weapons in most slots, just like they do in House of Wolves. Conversely, if ascension did not exist in HoW, the elemental raid weapons from Skolas would be the most desired PvE weapons in the game and people would be using Queen's weapons and many others.

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  • Edited by Madman: 8/8/2015 9:38:02 PM
    I dunno. Word of Crota is pretty solid and can outperform Fatebringer in DPS, depending on the circumstances. Fang of Ir Yut is solid. Hunger of Crota was highly sought after. Abyss Defiant would have been great if the AR class hadn't been ruined. Oversoul Edict is really great against the Hive. Black Hammer was so good they nerfed it alongside two exotics. None of them were as essential as Fatebringer, but they were all desirable weapons. PoE and Queen's weapons just aren't, regardless of the attack rating differential. In terms of weapon acquisition being satisfying, would you say it's better to go to something solely because it has a higher attack rating? I don't. I think that is a very uninteresting game mechanic, and we should be able to really make choices by each weapon's intricacies, not because one number makes one gun best another in spite of everything else. That's the situation we will find ourselves in, and whether you're attached to your year one gear or not, there will be no question whether you will adopt the new stuff, because it will excel in every way due to a single stat. That is really uninteresting and unsatisfying.

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  • An imbalance of "overpowered" weapons can only negatively effects PvP play. Fun fact; every gun [i]ever[/i] released will [i]always be usable in the Crucible[/i]. Your whole point about balancing weapons becoming "exponentially" harder? Keeping current gear capped at 365 [i]does nothing to fix that issue[/i]; they're still gonna need to balance them! :P It only hurts PvE players, whereas letting players continue to utilize their favorite gear has literally [i]zero[/i] negative effect, on anyone.

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  • That is a good point. But the counter to that is that you didn't see that phenomenon in The Dark Below. I saw very few people using vanilla weapons in regular Crucible once TDB weapons became widely available (I started playing in January so didn't see launch). I think they can hedge their bets that if the PvE players move to a new suite of weapons, that they will supplant the old weapons in PvP. They are also adjusting perks such as field scout that are fairly unbalanced in PvP (such as a Jolder's with Field Scout enabling a good player to have heavy a long time). Contrast that with the PvE experience in House of Wolves. Could I get into a Skolas group with kinetic primary weapons from PoE? In fact, serious endgame players rarely use anything except for elemental primary weapons. That means Bungie would have to either make them more widely available (causing players to complain that "scrubs" get them) or provide some incentive for new players to run legacy content. The latter change would be a huge mistake, as the progression system in House of Wolves is already a mess. It's often suggested here that new players should be required to run VoG etc, but that would be a disaster. The [i]only[/i] way ascension would work in the future is for the Etheric Light equivalent to be as rare as something like Crux of Crota, only available after a long period of conquering the new endgame content. Integrating Etheric Light into the overall progression system in HoW was a mistake. It's wide availability made it so active endgame players quickly ascended all their favorites, rendering Skolas irrelevant in less than a month as serious endgame content, while simultaneously being an additional barrier for more casual players in trying to max out the gear they had attained.

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  • [quote]The [i]only[/i] way ascension would work in the future is for the Etheric Light equivalent to be as rare as something like Crux of Crota, only available after a long period of conquering the new endgame content.[/quote] 150% agree. For me, just the [i]possibility[/i] of being able to upgrade my gear would be enough to make my efforts feel validated, and would help diminish the feeling of being "forced" to start moving in to different gear.

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  • Everyone brings up that HoW legendaries are crap ... And the PoE are, but only because they removed the last perk slot in favor of the craptastic shank burn, dreg burn, etc. Yet no one seems to bring up the vendor, crucible, strike, and ToS weapons everyone strives to get ... Despite the fact that old gear can be ascended. Allowing ascension has done nothing to keep people from playing the new game content or trying to acquire new weapons. Nothing. The crappy design of the PoE weapons was the only thing that stifled it at all. So tell me again why it's a bad idea to allow ascension.

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  • Ascension is the only reason people played in the first place lol.

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  • Move on

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