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Edited by Stahero:
8/17/2015 5:43:37 AM
5
Lost Sols, what a contrivance of interest you've become.
At first you seem the eager contributor, enthusiastically offering your relatively educated opinions forth, denouncing or supporting various concepts from Bungie. But then, almost suddenly, your renown burgeons sporadically and your influence is pressed along every boundary of these forums; your every word garnering a great deal of public attention.
I find that... peculiar.
And now, almost as if I encourage your questioned stardom, I find myself begrudgingly curious of your popular opinions. Come, Lost Sols, let us talk once more of important things, Guardian to Guardian.
[b]MATCHMAKING[/b]
I gather it to be your opinion that matchmaking endorses inclusivity. That Guardians less than fortunate would be given a deserved chance at Destiny's endgame activity. From your perspective, I imagine you find this an ideal solution for the discriminatory mindsets of The Guardian Malcontents, those who demand ludicrous criteria for inclusion.
I politely disagree.
In a perfect world, you would be right. If every Guardian felt such tolerance as perhaps you or I do, none would suffer ostracism or exclusion. But that, my dear Lost Sols, is not this world. Even in the rank and file of the most tolerant Fireteam, volatile hostility would still breed excessively. Hatred is just as human as love, and many would suffer insults, abuse, derogation, mistreatment, or otherwise uncalled for cruelty at the hands of ill-tempered Guardians.
You know this.
It noble of you to think so optimistically, truly it is. But it is also naïve to believe such readily available inclusion wouldn't engender blatant bullying. Why, just look upon these forums. You of all people should know, you who spend such a great deal of time here, that people are generally intolerable. One offered opinion, one slight misstep, one unintended comment, and they converge around you like starved wolves.
Matchmaking serves no one save for elitist Malcontents, the ones who may have missed their moment of allotted time and have become desperate. Would others benefit? Of that I've no doubt. But the scales are weighted heavily in favor of the Guardian Malcontents, the Trolls who bully for attention, the Players who are self-serving that may choose to abandon others once satisfied.
It is unfortunate, but unfortunately true nonetheless.
[b]TOLERANCE[/b]
Now [i]this[/i] we agree on. It may interest you to know that I consider myself a small part of the Deaf Community. I'm well versed in ASL and have known many remarkable Deaf people. I myself am not deaf, nor am I CODA. But I am studying ASL interpretation and am saddened to know that some deaf players are actively outcasted due to their inability to hear or because of their speech. Such barbaric discrimination though hardly surprising when one accounts some of the populace of the Destiny community.
You, Lost Sols, cannot be counted among them. You are a true gentlemen.
Lately these forums seem to have become a haven for prejudice and bigotry; unworthy of one such as you. You seem a smart man, so surely you must know your plights for acceptance and tolerance are told mostly to ignorants who foolishly think their narrow minds are infallible. Even with your reputation, hatred and discrimination will always plague this place of discussion. Save yourself the time and forgo proselytizing. Do not waste your time attempting to educate these hate-mongers, as they will not listen to you or anyone. If I may, why not spend your time elsewhere, a place where you could do some good.
It would be in your best interest.
[b]BUNGIE[/b]
Now, as I'm aware I'm in the ever-shrinking minority, I've always supported Bungie and still very much do. I only recognize they are in a most unenviable position, one in which a great many either ignore or complete look over.
During our last conversational palaver, I may have been a bit too general and perhaps even vague. Allow me to explain very clearly:
Bungie, the Developers of Destiny, do not hold exclusive autonomy in their Game's development. Activision, the Publishers of Destiny, fund or otherwise pay the internal development team (Bungie) to work on their licensed Intellectual Property (Destiny). As such, Activision is an "external developer" and actively monitors, critiques, and likely even assists in ongoing development. Some of the most controversial decisions Destiny suffers from may have been enforced by Activision or at the very least encouraged (I.e., the growing price of DLC).
Furthermore, Destiny as an existing Intellectual Property still maintains support for Last Generation consoles (Xbox 360 and Playstation 3). This is likely a mandate from Activision, which while profitable, severely stunts Destiny's in-game content growth.
For an example, one could pose the Dragon Age: Inquisition/Witcher 3 dichotomy.
Dragon Age: Inquisition, like Destiny, supported previous generation consoles. While a great game, it suffered immensely in terms of content availability, especially if one compares it to Witcher 3. Unlike DAI, Witcher did not have support for Last Generation consoles. Because of that, it offered a much more in-depth world with much more detail. In terms of sheer world size, longevity, scope, and content, Witcher 3 easily beats Dragon Age: Inquisition in all retrospects.
Were Destiny exclusive to new generation consoles, many of their biggest problems would just as easily be solved. Vault Space, Customization, Bigger Maps, Better Servers, in general Vastly Greater Content. Perhaps even matchmaking. All of these heavily demanded issues would be remedied. I promise you. But regrettably, they can't just suddenly choose not to support Last Generation consoles. As an MMO, That would require shutting down 360/PS3 servers entirely, which would lead to lawsuits and general dissatisfaction.
I also say this as fact, not of judgement. Last Generation Consoles hold back games. Like it or not.
This is why Bungie is in a most unenviable position, Lost Sols. I wholeheartedly believe they do the most with what little they have. I believe they want to give us more, but they are impossibly constrained by a great many things. Until support for Last Generation consoles are dropped, Destiny as we all know it can't be expected to change. Perhaps when Destiny 2 is released things will notably get better. But that requires much patience and understanding, something you and I both know hardly exists in these forums.
Our little matter of agreement it seems.
Agree, or agree to disagree?
English
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Edited by Lost Sols: 8/17/2015 7:25:26 AM---Part One--- Lol, it's been awhile. I have to say, that's quite a plate you set before me. I was actually in bed on my phone calling it a night, but you've made me go back to my computer for this one :) Let's see if I can get you to see my perspective. [quote]Matchmaking serves no one save for elitist Malcontents, the ones who may have missed their moment of allotted time and have become desperate. Would others benefit? Of that I've no doubt. But the scales are weighted heavily in favor of the Guardian Malcontents; the Trolls who bully for attention, the Players who are self-serving that may choose to abandon others once satisfied. It is unfortunate, but unfortunately true nonetheless.[/quote] Matchmaking is actually the lifeblood of online gaming. Xbox made Microsoft a name as a console manufacturer, but matchmaking made them the kings of the last console generation. To say the mm serves only elitist malcontents makes no sense. Matchmaking allows anyone to participate in content regardless of race, religion, social status, skill level, etc. Would there be bullies, malcontents and trolls? Of course. There are on LFG sites and there are in any number of normal crucible matches. It's a part of gaming, but they are by no means a majority and to allow a small percentage of trouble makers to dictate how everyone accesses the game is not right. In 2005 Perfect Dark had hosted lobbies. If you hosted, you picked game type, game size (up to 50 players if I remember correctly), number of spaces open for random people to join, weapon layouts, etc. If you weren't hosting, you could browse lobbies and see what people were playing and if there were open spaces to join. Once a lobby was formed, you played until the host quit or you left. What this led to is the same people playing game after game together and it was the single most social experience I've even seen online. Everyone ended up talking eventually and 99.9% of the people playing were cool as hell. Gears of War came out and it was the same thing and again, playing together in lobbies, people would open up after a game or two and it was extremely social. Halo 3 changed things. Halo 3 allowed team killing and it also just matched everyone as we do now where it was all random, but easier and quicker to leave and requeue after a match than try to party up with people. It also allowed cross team chat before and after matches and it quickly became a cesspool of 10 year olds screaming obscenities and racial slurs before and after matches. I played a few other games after Halo 3 (Fallout and a few others), but could not get back into any more Halo games. So I ended up switching to pc and playing WoW for 7 years. Know what permeates through every activity in WoW and works amazingly? Matchmaking. I was in guilds pre-mm raids where there was tremendous in-fighting over who got to raid and who got left out each week. Countless guilds died agonizing deaths over jealousies and popularity contests. When they introduced LFR, everyone said the same thing you and others say now. It could never work. It would be all trolls and quitters. No one would talk. I ran hundreds of LFRs and I had one fail group ever. Sometimes we'd all get in someone's vent and other times people would type out who would do what. In some cases, you know what to do just by what group you were put in. The thing is, when content requires communication, people will maybe not always talk, but they'll listen. I hear the argument that LFRs were dumbed down. I've played regular raids, heroic raids, LFR raids, 10 man raids, 25 man raids. All of them are infinitely more involved than anything in Destiny. The difference was, in non-LFR raids when someone quit or was kicked for being bad, sometimes you didn't find a replacement or had to send someone to trade chat to try to recruit a random. There was no guarantee that you finished the boss let alone the raid though. In LFR if someone quit or was kicked, the group just re-entered the queue and usually within 3-5 minutes the group was back at it. Occasionally it would be a bitch to find a tank, but the groups never just fell apart and had to quit. Pre-LFR is was really frustrating to try to play endgame content in WoW because your best odds were to join a guild, but that didn't guarantee you'd be chosen to raid. So if you weren't in one or chosen, you'd have to post in trade chat looking for a group and hope to find one and then hope they let you roll loot. I was in a guild during WoTLK where those of us not chosen to be in the guild raid team formed a second team. We ended up beating the first 3 wings of the raid before the main raid team so they started raiding our members. It was -blam!-ed up and tore the guild apart. Once LFR was implemented there was no bullshit, no "you don't get to run this week", no "you can't roll on that dps piece because the off tank wants it for their dps spec" LFR was bullshit free. You go fly around questing or doing dailies and when the queue pops, you hit enter and go raid EVERY WEEK. Matchmaking made endgame not only accessible to everyone, it made it as or more social and fun because there wasn't the political bullshit involved. And also, it made it where pretty much everyone knew how to do all the raids and even when people didn't there were plenty to guide the groups through the mechanics. So I disagree that matchmaking cannot work because the best gaming experiences I've had the last 10 years have all involved random matchmaking. [quote]Lately these forums seem to have become a haven for prejudice and bigotry[/quote] Yes there is that element on any forum and any community, but it is by no means the majority on here either. It's always a very vocal minority. I spent most of the day today on and off the forums and 99.9% of the exchanges were highly positive. The problem is that one person talking shit can ruin your day sometimes. But that doesn't make the forums a bad place or speak to the overall quality of the community. Generally I've found there are 2 types of people. Those who want to post about Destiny and those that want to talk shit about people who they don't agree with. The overwhelming majority want to talk about the game. [quote]Bungie, the Developers of Destiny, do not hold exclusive autonomy in their Game's development. Activision, the Publishers of Destiny, fund or otherwise pay the internal development team (Bungie) to work on their licensed Intellectual Property (Destiny). As such, Activision is an "external developer" and actively monitors, critiques, and likely even assists in ongoing development. Some of the most controversial decisions Destiny suffers from may have been enforced by Activision or at the very least encouraged (I.e., the growing price of DLC). Furthermore, Destiny as an existing Intellectual Property still maintains support for Last Generation consoles (Xbox 360 and Playstation 3). This is likely a mandate from Activision, which while profitable, severely stunts Destiny's in-game content growth.[/quote] I posted this yesterday in a thread regarding Activision and their roll in endgame grouping: [quote]Honestly I think the biggest issue with endgame matchmaking is the contract with Activision and the Teen rating. Halo had a VERY bad reputation for multiplayer. I think Activision, Bungie or both were scared shitless Destiny would end up the same. Hence a game that released with virtually no ways to interact socially in a shared online world. Basically it's letting a very small % of gamers (raging, racist, foul mouthed trolls) to dictate how everyone are able to play. But it's far easier to just exclude everyone than to try to build tools to remove those players. As far as the forums and the people who are radically against optional mm or gear accession, in general they tend to be the same 10% that everyone is so afraid we'll run into in OMM in the first place.[/quote] There is no doubt that Bungie are beholden to Activision on way more fronts than they should be. Bungie should have held all the cards when shopping publishers and yet somehow gave the farm to Activision when it should have been Activision giving the farm to publish Destiny.
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Edited by Lost Sols: 8/17/2015 7:35:23 AM---Part Two--- [quote]Dragon Age: Inquisition, like Destiny, supported previous generation consoles. While a great game, it suffered immensely in terms of content availability, especially if one compares it to Witcher 3. Unlike DAI, Witcher did not have support for Last Generation consoles. Were Destiny exclusive to new generation consoles, many of their biggest problems would just as easily be solved. Vault Space, Customization, Bigger Maps, Better Servers, in general Vastly Greater Content. Perhaps even matchmaking. All of these heavily demanded issues would be remedied. I promise you. But regrettably, they can't just suddenly choose not to support Last Generation consoles. Until support for Last Generation consoles are dropped, Destiny as we all know it can't be expected to change. Perhaps when Destiny 2 is released things will notably get better.[/quote] The first real in-depth post I made on the forums was in regards to 404 Architect. Unfortunately it is the only post in my activity history that no longer exists. It seems Bungie did not like the subject because you can search it and no results come up even though there were hundreds of posts on it. You can still access the original through a reddit link, but it is not accessible through the forums alone and all other posts regarding it (including mine) appear to have been scrubbed. The reason I bring it up is that in my post I talked about what I thought went wrong in the development of Destiny and why the game that released was a shell of what they'd shown over the two years leading up to it. My general consensus was 2 fold. 1) They bit off more than they could chew and developing for 4 consoles ate into too much of their time 2) They sold their souls to Activision for their money and guaranteed a hard deadline. It's the same thing that -blam!-ed them with Halo 2 and they released that game half finished. Instead of learning from that, Destiny was Halo 2 all over again. The difference was that 13 years later DLC exists and they were able to resell us the content that they had to cut to get it shipped on time as DLC. 3) In regards to vault space, that has nothing to do with last gen hardware. Vault space is just memory storage. My 360 has plenty and Bungie's servers should make console memory moot. Morrowind had a bigger world than Destiny and unlimited storage on the original Xbox. The problem with vault space in Destiny is that we were never meant to keep weapons. They were going to make us upgrade EVERYTHING with TDB. Somehow they didn't anticipate that people would be pissed to have to re-level gear 3 months in and so first they let us upgrade exotics for it and then they upgraded everything with HoW. It ended up being good for us, but it -blam!-ed up vault space and their shitty programming isn't set up to handle basic memory file storage for some reason. So in regards to last gen. I've stated since at least December that I don't think Destiny 2 should be on last gen consoles. Obviously they have an obligation to see them through the first full release, but it would be stupid to continue any further. The question will be in how bad they want to -blam!- over everyone on the switch and if our characters will end up migrating still. The last thing I will add though you didn't ask is in regards to dedicated servers and a conversation I had with someone over whether Bungie should provide them or we should have to pay more for them since Destiny isn't a monthly subscription game. [quote]No there isn't a monthly subscription for Destiny, but if you break down WoW average yearly costs vs Destiny year one, the difference is negligible. No monthly fees, but paying 4 times in one year. Also, if Destiny averages 1 million players over its life span, they'll conservatively make 1.5 billion dollars. Considering it made 300 million week one, that ten year total stands to be much higher. They chose to make a server based shared world experience. To say that they can't afford to put out the game they should because servers cost money is a bad argument. Yes it's business, but games like WoW have 100 times the content per expansion and provide dedicated servers for their game while charging essentially the same per calendar year as Destiny. WoW is $15 a month paying monthly. I think it gets to $10 paying yearly. So average yearly cost is around $150. Factoring expansion purchase, bump that $30 per year, but you don't have to purchase them to keep playing your content in WoW either. Destiny year one was $135 at its cheapest, but it's harder to pin its real average costs down because they jerk around non-US players. My guess is that destiny's average is probably also $150 and you have to upgrade to not have content seriously restricted. You also have to consider that Destiny players are paying additionally for Xbox Live and PSN to be able to play as well. I agree they want the large margin of profitability, but I disagree on just accepting anything. They have a responsibility to make the game they built function and play the best it can. [/quote] So that's my take, let me know what you think. You got an extra 2 hours of me tonight lol. Night.
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Haha, Morrowind. You continue to pleasantly surprise me... But thank you for the read and reply. Sleep well, Lost Sols, and ready your wit for our next exchange. I've much more to say. Let us begin... [b]MATCHMAKING pt. 2[/b] It wasn't said verbatim, but I previously meant to imply my criticisms toward endgame matchmaking specifically. Clearly, as a multiplayer, Destiny does feature numerous channels of multiplaying matchmaking experiences as a staple requirement. I only meant to insinuate the gall of the Guardian Malcontents were endgame matchmaking available. I confess, I speak with exaggerated disapproval when regarding online players. Brand me pessimistic, but my opinion extends from, perhaps unwisely, playing Crucible/Vanguard Strikes. It is an astronomically high number, were I to count just how many times I've travelled starside with fellow Guardians only to have them leave prematurely and/or purposefully ignore impertinent activity-related goals or agendas. Very seldom things in Destiny earn more of my ire than fickle cowardice. When your team is so close to winning but then some restless Guardian apparently has enough an blatantly abandons his teammates in the midst of battle. The enemy presses this sudden advantage, of course, and another loss is added your reluctant collection. Or perhaps even more maddening, in Strikes when your Guardian suffers an unplanned death and your so-called teammates forgo reviving you, instead deciding to teabag your orb, dance upon your corpse, or otherwise taunt you instead of simply reviving you. A most frustrating moment of happenstance, I'm sure you'd agree. In my opinion, endgame matchmaking would suffer the same negligence from the Guardian Malcontents. While optional matchmaking [i]may[/i] seem like a step in the right direction, it would only create more problems than solutions. You know as well as I that some of these Guardians would not preform seriously. Were optional matchmaking available, they would assist so long as their needs were met, and once satisfied, they would leave prematurely, avoid task impertinent activities, or otherwise create problems where non need exist. Cooperation would be sorely lacking there of and disagreements over strategy would be volatile. I recognize problems are still abundant within "friended" Fireteams. However, the responsibility for an ill-executed strategy is dealt to that team's inner-circle, not scapegoated toward the poorer performing random. Furthermore, I seriously doubt Bungie feared a Halo repeat when developing Destiny. Halo had its time, during the course of which, issues and problems were abound. But I sincerely believe they've learned from some of their mistakes, and chose to forgo endgame matchmaking for reasons likely not far from those listed above. However, Destiny is the only MMO I've ever played and it makes me a poor authority on the matter. For better or worse, playing Destiny has developed the way I see MMOs, which clearly from my opinion of the community, is not good. You hold a grand tenure over me in this regard, and though I may not necessarily agree with you completely, I'll concede to your authority. [b]TOLERANCE pt. 2[/b] As I've readily confessed, I have an exaggerated idea of disapproval when regarding this community; perhaps even unfairly so. But you, Lost Sols, distinctly hold popular opinion and unequivocal support from the majority and more or less receive the better backlash of criticisms from them. Yes, perhaps a great many of contributing Guardians speak of Destiny, though not always with civility or tact. Far too many times have I seen such unbecoming behavior on these forums it borderlines on tangible harassment and cruel barbarism. You say there are two kinds of Guardians here, but I politely beg to differ. There are in fact many, the ones which stand out listed accordingly. There are Guardians of respect. You, myself, Malphisto, and generously a few more. This infinitesimal demographic of contributors typically speaks with sound reason and a calm demeanor. Our prose is decisively thought out and our words are weighed with tact and civility. We don't think ourselves better than anyone but we do stand with our personal convictions strongly. We are too few, and are far from leading the majority. Then there are the Guardians in passing reference who easily make up the vast majority. These contributors eagerly weigh in on most discussions, casual offering "bumps" or colorful commentary on matters of agreement. They'll readily speak their mind but usually have something better to do other than endlessly debate in the forums. They are a group of numbers, and singlehandedly decide which topics trend and which topics don't. They are also your key demographic. And then of course there are The Guardian Malcontents. An inherently and typically unreasonably dissatisfied demographic. They wail like newborn infants, impossibly discontented over increasingly trivial matters. If ever they do find substantial reasons to be unhappy they will NEVER give rhyme or reason. They will simply do as they've always done and throw a tantrum. They'll cross their arms and stamp their feet and won't even have the decency offer legitimate feedback. They are a waste of attention and of the written word, yet still greatly populate this forum unchallenged. Lastly, internet trolls and children form the remainder. This otherwise immature, racist, and often offensive bunch of contributors spend most of their time here looking for a fight. They desperately seek attention from other Guardians and will say just about anything if gets them a response. Not the exaggeration I unfairly hold the community standard to, though certainly not the exaggerated 99% you hold them to either. [b]BUNGIE pt. 2[/b] First an foremost, Vault Space [i]is[/i] a Last Gen issue. This I passionately disagree with you on. Allow me to explain: Console memory and server memory are not synonymous. Morrowind could have "unlimited" storage space (ignoring those pesky overflow loot bags) because its storage was exclusively devoted to an internal, non-shared memory unit inside of the Xbox. When your character saves in Destiny, that memory is not saved internally on that console's memory unit. Your Destiny file/data is instead stored on Bungie's servers, thus allowing for cross-generation transferring. An Xbox need only accommodate a specific number of users and data. This allows for a skimpy cloth sack in Morrowind to hold scrib jelly, saltrice, bonemold armor, pillows, notes, etc. Because Destiny needs to accommodate north of 16 million players worldwide, it's servers can only do as much as the console allows. Were the constraints of Last Gen consoles lifted, much more items could be stored. I guarantee it. I play on Xbox One but am fully aware the 360 already suffers a static flow of small-time lag and that just managing Destiny pushes it to its limits. But regarding servers in general, PC servers are always better than console servers. This is widely known across gaming. It is partly why WoW can manage much more content than Destiny. I agree saying "because it costs money" is a bad argument, though WoW has had a long-time subscription service likely earning them a large amount of wealth which allows for even greater content than Destiny. Destiny is only about to hit its one year mark, solid and substantial improvements will take a great deal of time and effort. I honestly believe that it just takes a little bit of patience on our end and, of course, compromise on their's. My take on your take on things, Lost Sols. I'm interested to hear back from you.
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Long winded replies that deflect and don't answer any questions except to try to validate their own reasons for elitists that have no life, should be the only ones able to access the SAME content we ALL paid for...are really silly to say the least and ass backwards at best.
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*applauds* This guy gets it.
