Alright, so some folks already know that I have been holding off on posting my personal thoughts on this stuff for a number of reasons. Probably the greatest of those being that I had been drinking (Oh Bungie, you drove me to drink...LOL! Its funny but true! XD ) and obviously was in no fit state to be giving any sort of proper feedback. The other reason, upon finally getting sober, was that I felt the need to just take a sit back, relax and let all the information just sorta brew for a bit. Reflect upon it all.
That being said, I'll be giving my honest thoughts on all this.
[b][THE GOOD][/b]
It would be unfair of me to judge something and render a verdict if I did not also include the positives. Such being the case, I feel it wise to cover the good points and changes that Bungie has made with respect to Destiny's new expansion.
[b]1:[/b] "Vault Space"- This was obviously intended to be the highlight of the stream, it kept being alluded to the entire time. The storage has been doubled which is something many have been pushing for a LOT. And when I say many? I mean MANY. Pretty sure media outlets have even talked about it as well. I personally don't ever suffer from a lack of space, but there are hardcore collectors out there who greatly needed it and this definitely benefits them.
[b]2:[/b] "Character Levels"- Light no longer determines your actual level. This is excellent because now players have more of a reason to go around killing things. As with any game that has a leveling/exp system, the greatest joy is always in getting that "Level Up" which puts a smile on your face.
[b]3:[/b] "Marks"- Combing the Vanguard and Crucible Marks into a single currency was smart since now folks don't HAVE to force themselves to play PvP if they want to get stuff from the Crucible Vendors and vice versa. You also remove that annoying Weekly Limit which seriously made no sense originally. Its also cross characters, so people can now use a single toon to build up their other Guardians.
[b]4:[/b] "Class Items and Ghosts"- Holy crap, they ACTUALLY both do something now outside of just looking pretty. I remember players back like, within the first couple weeks of the game having first launched giving their own feedback and making suggestions that these items should play an actual role in the game. Nice to see this welcome change.
[b]5:[/b] "Exotic Blueprints"- I love the concept of the Blueprints itself, being able to have an actual collection list so that once you get them you will always have them.
[b][THE BAD][/b]
ALRIGHT! So probably the part of this post that most were wanting to see the most. (Bungie too?) Now there were a few other things that I personally thought were considered good but I didn't think were a big deal enough to make the above list. Unfortunately, despite all the various positives with the TTK, there is one very LARGE glaring negative which is just so monumentally huge that these redeeming qualities just don't manage to make up for in the least. Said issue had me so ridiculously furious that I needed to distance myself for everything Destiny related and then proceeded to drink the rest of the night in hopes of improving my mood. (For anyone curious: it proved to be a success)
BUT FIRST! I think it worth mentioning this as well...
[b]1:[/b] "Lack of Details"- I honestly re-watched the live stream like...5 times. No joke. I did this because I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing any bits of information or being confused about what I was hearing. And I have to say, while you guys did reveal quite a bit, you also created more questions as well in regards to the stuff you were trying to explain. I'll be making another post however to cover this since it goes hand in hand with an entirely other kettle of fish.
[b]2:[/b] I'm not even going to prime this one with a title. Pretty sure most already know what the "big thing" is that I was talking about. The one thing you would think should have been counted among the list of positives.
INFUSION...
Now, to be totally fair, I think the system of Infusion is brilliant. Gotta give credit where credit is due. However, [b]IT IS TOTALLY COMPLETELY WASTED AS PRESENTED![/b] This new system being introduced SCREAMS Gear Ascension, and is obviously a re-imagined concept inspired by Etheric Light. And yet, despite that, I can't help but wonder WHY it doesn't also apply to all Year 1 content? And now I have to say "content" instead of Legendary because the Exotics are also being included in that as well.
Allow me to elaborate. [b]MANY PLAYERS HAVE BEEN ADVOCATING FOR CONTINUED GEAR ASCENSION FOR ALL YEAR 1 LEGENDARY WEAPONS AND ARMOR FOR MONTHS[/b]. It is quite obviously a big deal for people. Now, I feel it worth mentioning that for said months, there were those either disagreeing or flatout trolling anyone on the forums who shared this opinion. Why? Because those people already did not care about the Legendary Weapons and Armor. They had already made the conscious decision that once TTK came out that they would be getting rid of their old gear. However, now that Year 1 Exotics are also in that same boat, NOW is magically important enough to have continued Gear Ascension. NOW its something worth complaining about or making petitions for all because it now impacts them.
Why am I bringing this up? To illustrate a point. People don't like feeling as if they have wasted their time. The general consensus is that Year 1 was nothing more than a $100 Beta. You acquired data from the players and our feedback and then used that information to design TTK. And so everyone is under the impression that this means the game we got is going to be improving and getting better, right? Only problem there is that you really aren't improving so much as it seems you're just burying it in the sands of time to serve as nothing more than a far distant memory.
Players spent hundreds of hours replaying the same content over and over again as intended, as designed with the emphasis being focused on acquiring new weapons and armor (Legendary and Exotic alike). When Dark Below came out and the vanilla Legendary Gear was given no option to upgrade, the masses gave an uproar, turned volatile and for many (myself included) outright quit the game. It wasn't until with House of Wolves and the introduction of Etheric Light that many of us came back to Destiny with the prospect of having value returned to our old gear that we worked hard for to get.
But now with TTK, its the Dark Below all over again. As I have argued already in this post: https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/146511648/0/0
Those who are now feeling the sting from the Year 1 Exotics not being brought forward, you are NOW understanding how the rest of us feel. Now, turning my attention back to Bungie, I need you to understand that people have lives. And not in the sense of day to day activity. Your team doesn't have much experience when it comes to games like this, so let me explain an important point to you.
When it comes to online games that are ongoing like this, people make the choice to commit themselves to it. Humans have finite life spans. It is the greatest motivation in our existence. Destiny is said to be a 10 year game, meaning you are basically asking every player here to give [b]10 YEARS[/b] of their life to you and your game. Any time spent playing this game is time that people are choosing to invest, time that could go to any number of other things. Their time, [b]THEIR LIFE ON THIS EARTH[/b], is a form of currency [b]MORE VALUABLE[/b] than any amount of money.
People want something in exchange for their time, for the price they paid in more ways than one. They associate this more often than not with the rewards they acquired. The Vault of Glass. Crota's End. Trials of Osiris. Prison of Elders. Strikes. The Crucible. All these have rewards to be earned, goals that players consciously worked towards.
Whether it be that Exotic they spent so long searching for or that Legendary they religiously played the Raids non-stop to find, the [b]PROOF OF INVESTMENT IS ATTACHED TO THE REWARDS[/b]. Making Year 1 Legendary and Exotic Weapons/Armor obsolete by not allowing them to be further ascended/infused disrespects that investment and insults their choice to play the game in the first place.
Yes, "[i]Year 1 Gear will have a place in Year 1 content[/i]" [b]IS CONSIDERED AN INSULT[/b]. People didn't grind Vault of Glass to get gear so that they could just continue repeating that raid over and over again. No. They got these weapons and armors because they were looking to bring those things with them going forward into the future of the game. That is why it is called Time Investment. It is a natural, psychological aspect hardwired into every Human being. It becomes more prevalent in older people, though and starts to kick in around your 20s or 30s especially if you're the sort who works a full-time job and you, like so many others in the world, deal with an enormous amount of stress in your day to day life.
In conclusion? The Infusion System should apply to everything. Its brilliant, the concept itself is beautiful. But as it stands now, it fails to realize its full potential to be what can actually DRIVE Destiny to go its full 10 years with all of us still playing it. Because if you give everyone the choice to build their characters the way they want to without said restrictions, not only will you improve the quality of your game but you will also ensure that their invested time is not only respected, but appreciated.
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Bump Very well said. I would not be surprised when Bungie screws TTK up again and players pull pitchforks out at the new exotic program. It feels extremely similar to DarkBelow exotic program. Find a lower then current attack exotic, go to the tower and visit Xur ....(I mean the new exotic kiosk) and it will see you have found a lower level attack exotic and allow you to purchase with a large sum of currency a new higher attack tier unleveled exotic that's basically the same gun .....I say basically because the old white Suros regime is basically the same as the new black Suros regime but the Desticle's will tell me it's a totally different gun because it's painted black and it has option to fire faster and that health regen perk is unlocked faster. But I still say that's basically the same gun. It has the same fraking name !!! For F's sake A higher damage does not make it a totally different weapon. [i] I suspect players will be quite upset about this exotic program. It's very reminiscent of dark below Xur exotic upgrade program that Bungie apologized about. [/i] Now my guess is it won't go over well,... Bungie will apologize again and a fix will come out right at the same time the next DLC comes out. And when the next two big DLCs come out Bungie will apologize and show off their "new and improved ascension plan" and since developing new content or weapons is costly we will get a gear upgrade plan for all the old exotics and old VoG gear and everything else. We will have deleted all that stuff by then and have to re-run the old content in VoG to get that old gear and ascend it again. This is what I believe to be Bungie's master plan.
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Galactic level Epic Bump!!! On point as usual Mal. It seems that despite how many times it is said, how many time people rant about things Bungievision always manages to turn a blind eye and deaf ear to them. The way they burned me and many others with the vanilla game through their vidocs, has made Twitch streams completely pointless. You can only listen to so much BS after you were sold a game through videos and delivered something diametrically different. Now they want to use more videos to sell TTK. Worst of all they use that jackass Deej to do it. Deej is about as useful as tits on an alligator snapping turtle. If Bungievision wants to bring players like me back, they need to stop the flowery BS and just be bold and honest with us. Stop the eye candy show and give us the facts. Start being honest about everything, rather than being evasive. If Cosmo wants to earned our trust and respect, stop giving us the "company line" and just be honest, open, and bold with us.
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I've been screaming for Year 1 ascension for weeks now and never had anyone from Bungie make a comment on it. It seems pretty set in stone, at least for the time being. They've gone all-in on TTK and that's where their focus is. Year 1 can bugger off as far as they're concerned. This makes me a sad panda.
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Edited by beachedas25: 8/21/2015 5:28:28 PMGreat analysis. And thankyou for stating what should be obvious. We want our time in the game to feel meaningful and rewarded. We want to bring our weapons into the future. We dont want our weapons obsoleted. I was watching a video on worker motivation and performace which I feel applies. Ive mentioned this in another post but will repeat it here as it applies to what you are saying. They did a study on this and the results were largely what you would expect. They studied 3 groups. The first group their efforts were praised. The second group their efforts were ignored. The third group their efforts were literally shreaded infront of them. They gave numbers for the results but I will just give the simple conclusions. The first group clearly performed better than the other 2 groups. The third group performed the worst and the second group performed better than the third but only slightly better. This was a highly credible university study on human behaviour and psychology which Ive simplified to make the point that disrespecting peoples efforts is demotivating. It is a well studied and established natural human response and bungie is effectively shredding our efforts before our very eyes. We do not have to be happy about it and it is perfectly reasonable to express that we are not. Sadly the game is going to suffer if they continue in this vain and I for one am not buying into this if this is their 10 year plan. I already see the polls reflecting this as theres been a significant shift of people no longer buying ttk. It was about 45% buying 25% not buying and 30% undecided. The poll I saw today was 28% buying, 54% not buying and 18% undecided. This may have changed but was about what it was when I saw it last. At one point it was 60% not buying ttk. Even if its now 50% this is quite a shift and a direct reflection of peoples reaction to and feelings about the latest news.
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3 things: 1) "You can use Year 1 gear for Year 1 content." Who in their right mind would go into any content w/o their highest level gun? Beyond novelty's sake, like Datto's videos where they try to drop Crota with the Khovostov, I doubt anyone will do anything that requires such a time investment like VoG, CE and PoE without ensuring that they can deal out the most damage possible! To assume otherwise is foolish. And while I am okay with Legendary weapons and armor staying behind (because, lets face it, Bungie will have a hard time making anything that could compete with the God-mode Fatebringer or the best auto rifle in the game, Vision of Confluence), leaving Year 1 exotics behind is just... it brings me to my second point. 2) "Only some of the Year 1 exotics are coming forward right now." This is probably the most controversial thing anyone at Bungie has ever said (except for the Luke Smith article, that shit was napalm). Besides the weapon tuning that will come 6 months too late, the fact that some exotics will not be ascended and therefore live their first year of existence in the vault (Hard Light, Universal Remote, Dreg's Promise, Super Good Advice) is enfuriating. I was really looking forward to the variety, and while unknown exotics may come in to fill the void, they can never fill the fantacy. I wanted Hard Light SOOOOOOOOOOOO bad! And then Xur finally did me a solid and sold the sexy beast. I was disappointed by its performance, but felt comfort in the hope that once weapon rebalancing hit, I could caress the faces of guardians with its marshmallow beams until they hit the ground dead. Now, outside of the inconsequential normal Crucible, it will continue to rust. But thank goodness that Suros is getting an upgrade + a paintjob, which brings me back to my original point. Why have a Year 2 blueprint of a gun that I already have? Why permit the coexistence of two versions of the same gun, when the second version will outclass the first version in every way? What incentive will I have to use Suros Regime v.1.0? In addition to that, why have an option of crafting a Year 2 No Backup Plans? Why not just update the Year 1 version and then let me ascend it to Year 2 power levels? (Btw, its exotic perk better not be "a much longer duration on Force Barrier". That shotgun synergy perk was GOLD!) I guess my point is... 3) Update the Year 1 exotics. If there is a visual difference between the models, then let us choose which aesthetic we want. Saying only some exotics are coming forward is akin to the accusations that have been layed before Bungie in Year 1, namely that content was cut and sold off in later DLC. I would bet real Monopoly money that in the next DLC, we will see other Year 1 exotics receive their Year 2 upgrades and they will be held as a sales point for the DLC. And you know what, I will probably buy it. But it ain't right. It ain't right.
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BARMP!! You said it, I agree with it. Great post! I don't see their need to replace content with each expansion. Let the game grow! If one Year One is going to "ascend" they all should ascend, we should be able to select our favorites if they must be limited, or just they should not be included in year two and have the slots the "upgraded" versions are taking should have something new. It's pretty crazy as well that they say, "moving forward we're going to respect players time" then the next breath say we're selecting what you'll bring with you regardless of the time you've invested in them. As much as people hate Thorn I spent a long time on the bounty. So for me, that's the exotic I kind of want to take with me. Others will have the exotics (notice how I'm not even bringing up legendaries) that they are attached to because it challenged them to get. So in the very LEAST exotics that had a bounty and didn't rely on RNG should be first in what is [i]permitted [/i]to ascend. Destiny is just turning into that game when we were little that had that one kid that was making all the rules and would change them constantly to suit themselves. [u]We didn't like playing with that kid...[/u]
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Edited by TheLordCypher: 8/21/2015 3:33:15 PMI am TheLordCypher and I approve this message. Beautiful my friend, just beautiful. I could not have wished for a more honest and thought provoking post. With that said..... I AM DONE!!!! I'm currently trying to get a refund from Microsoft for my digital purchase of TTK but if I can not that is fine. 2,000 hours WASTED on Bungivisions great LIE. I did not realize Bungivision 10 year plan was: Lie for 10 years. Make everything useless after a year. Overcharging for pathetic re-skins. Truly endless grinding that not even devotion can end. Broken PVP. Yearly lame resetting of everything. Glitch filled content. I'll just stop here because there's just too much to say and I don't have all day. Congrats Bungie and Activision you both milked me of my time and money for an entire year but lost me forever as a supporter. I will NEVER buy another game or DLC from you and I am so HAPPY I never played CoD or Halo. Knowing the great Destiny year one FAIL was and is the ONLY time I wasted my time and money on these two useless companies does leave me some solace and closure. For those of you who decided to stay. I say good luck my friends and endure. Edit: I'm happy announce that I was successful at receiving my refund for the taking king. I'm officially done with destiny. Hooray for me!
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The only thing missing is that now players [i]are[/i] actually forced into PvP for legendary marks. The only sources, according to Bungie, are weekly events, daily , breaking down year two legendary gear and PvP. You can't even farm marks in the strike playlist anymore. This was a paid beta and if I could get my money and my time back, I sure would.
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Edited by Borta Senglece: 8/21/2015 3:09:31 PMI think of it this way in a more realistic take. Oryx is some bad motherfuker right? He could run though vog and crota and Poe with his dick hanging out not giving a shit. Hell he prob takes half those people to make his bitch. So it's more believable that the weapons we have now are weak. We need stronger weapons that we need to acquire. "The weapons we have now are too weak to kill oryx and his hoes" So we must break into his house and steal some of his shit while also bringing in some new weapons from our friendly weapon manufactures. Hakke suros have been back engineering the shit from oryx and golden age to get us some new powerful weapons that can actually hang with this 3rd dimensional taken fuk. How about thinking of it like that and not awwww bungie is trying to fuxk us waaahhhh baby need milky. Baby need nappy. Destiny hard and Grundy no likey...... Go play another game, the shit won't change no matter how hard you cry. Gally fate ringer and black hammers run was good but now it's over.... Get over it and play with some new weapons damn. Yall wanted diversity and arsenals well you get it and you bitch about it......... Gamer logic [b]edit[/b] mind you I don't give a shit about spelling or grammar so suck it.
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But your going to buy TTK though aren't you? That will show them.... If you're not happy with it then don't buy it. I would love Destiny to be have been the vanilla game and all the expansions rolled into one with all the changes coming in TTK but they've moved the goal posts too many times and now I don't trust them. I'm going to spend my money on games that deserve it and don't outright lie and con it's fan base/consumers repeatedly. Bring on MGSV, fallout 4, the division and no mans sky.
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What are the odds, that for the current endgame activities (VoG/CE/PoE/ToO) when TTK launches, those activities will get more higher tiers of difficulty that also drop their usual rewards, BUT be considered year two...that would add to the game instead of replacing and I would see it as a very suitable compromise. The game is proven easily scalable, I'm kinda baffled why the previous two DLC didn't do that.
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***[i]a tear rolls down my cheek, throws some roses[/i]*** Hahaha bravo my friend - agreed and obviously worth a bump
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Thank you for taking the time to write this out. It is exactly how my friends and I feel.
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bump well said
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Bump. Yet another well thought out and eloquent post.
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signed
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^^^^^^ this
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Another splendid post, my friend. Our Year 1 gear is indeed a testament to both our time and struggle spent earning it. To leave it all behind and condemn it to be a victim of the Second Great Dismantling is an atrocious move.
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Well said.
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Bump. Well worded and good constructive criticism.
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Triple BUMP!