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Destiny

Discuss all things Destiny.
Edited by 传说中的 Ghost: 8/28/2015 11:37:38 AM
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By popular crybaby demand

[b]TLDR[/b] (too long; didn't read): [i]There are people who, believe it or not, claim that Hunters' both subclasses are [b]under-powered[/b] in PvP. Some even claim that Titans' Striker class is [b]over-powered[/b] in PvP. This topic will give you statistics that suggests that both cases are false. The source of information can be found [url=http://destinytracker.com/destiny/population]here[/url].[/i] [b]Note 1:[/b] [i]This thread has been edited to be less flamatory and more informative. Whoever wants a copy of the original can simply send me a PM.[/i] [b]Note 2:[/b] [i]This topic is focused on Bladedancers, Gunslingers and Strikers and therefor dedicate very little attention to the other subclasses. Some people are wondering both if and how Sunsingers super effects the rest of the stats, and the answer is yes. Due to Sunsingers super giving the player a significant reduction in ability cool-down, Sunsingers are at the top of both the Melee Kill Count (PvP) table and the Grenade Kill Count (PvP) table- this does however not mean that both their melee attacks and grenades are not great (without the super active) in PvP. Some people also wonder how Defender titans can have super kills due to their super being passive. I don't have the actual facts on this one, but me and other forumers are theorising that kills under the effect of either Weapons of Light, Blessings of Light or Armor of Light (i.e. kills inside the Ward of Dawn) count towards the Defender's Super Kill Count (PvP) table.[/i] [u]_________________________________________________[/u] Like a Gunslinger with Golden Gun I am here to burst your bubbles of misconception and delusion, with facts derived from statistics. Bladedancers and Gunslingers (from here on referred to simply as "Hunters) are not under-powered, and Strikers are not over-powered. Now I know that some of you will dispute the statistics' significance- and by all means do so... But if you have nothing but anecdotes to offer, chances are slim that anyone will care about what you have to say. Let's start by clearing out the demographics in the crucible, across all platforms (Xbox 360, Xbox One, Playstation 3, Playstation 4): 34.2% currently play as Hunters 33.6% currently play as Warlocks 32.2% currently play as Titans As you can see, no class is over-represented, thus can we deduce that none of the following stats will be skewed to a point of being completely unreliable or misrepresentative (think margine of error and natural breaks in population). Top 100 players (by class) 1st place: Hunters at 36.1% 2nd place: Titans at 32.6% 3rd place: Warlocks at 31.3% Congratulations Hunters! You are the Kings and Queens of the hill. Top 10,000 players (the average Joe, by class) 1st place: Hunters at 35.3% 2nd place: Warlocks at 32.7% 3rd place: Titans at 32% Congratulations Hunters! Yet again you're at the top. Let's break down the subclass demographics: [u]Hunters[/u] (34.2% of the population) 51% Bladedancers 49% Gunslingers [u]Titans[/u] (32.2% of the population) 47% Defenders 53% Strikers [u]Warlocks[/u] (33.6% of the population) 62% Sunsingers 38% Voidwalkers Let's have a look at the AVERAGE KDR: [u]Hunters[/u] Bladedancers > 1 Gunslingers > 1 [u]Titans[/u] Defender < 1 Striker < 1 [u]Warlocks[/u] Voidwalker < 1 Sunsinger < 1 As most of you know, the current (since shortly prior to HoW) PvP meta game consists of an exotic handcannon and a shotgun: 1) Handcannons 1,466,551,647 kills 2) Shotguns 1,441,875,593 kills 3) Melee 1,082,244,380 kills A common complaint is how Titans Shoulder charge is over-powered, so let's see who's the worst perpetraitor in the Crucible. 1) Sunsingers 281,325,978 (26% of) melee kills (as previously mentioned, effected by their super- but still lethal outside) 2) Strikers 193,989,846 (17.93% of) melee kills (Shoulder charge is not the standard melee kill, but does count towards melee kills) 3) Bladedancer 175,413,331 melee kills (Arcblade does not count toward melee kills) 4) Voidwalker 14.84% 5) Defender 13.65% 6) Gunslinger 11.37% (throwing what?) To some players the Shoulder charge is a real problem, but I'm also sure I'm not the only one who has cursed the range and weight behind a warlock's air slap. Hmm. Gunslingers though, thumbs up if you know how to throw your knife. Now onto the real problem. Arcblade and Golden Gun needs a buff? Fist of Havoc needs a nerf? 1) Bladedancer at 207,596,562 kills (21.73%) 2) Gunslinger at 179,520,390 kills (18.79%) 3) Striker at 178,059,836 kills (18.64%) 4) Sunsinger at 15.71% 5) Voidwalker at 12.60% 6) Defender 12.52% So, now that we've established that Hunters get the absolute highest amount of kills with their supers, I think it's safe to say that neither Hunter super needs adjustments towards the better. As a part of class balancing the Hunter supers are very different from the other supers; they offer little damage income reduction (i.e. shields and health regeneration- EXOTICS EXCLUDED FOR VALID REASONS). In short, a hunter can get great rewards at great risks. Striker Titans are harder to stop. Can they be countered? Absolutely, but not in the traditional manner: you have to kill them before they close the gap to you. Waiting around the corner? Well... If someone want to use their super to do what a traditional shotgun can do just as good... Isn't that their loss? Anyways, the last myth to debunk: Hunter grenades are lackluster (under-powered), Magnetic grenades and Lightning grenades are OP: 1) Sunsinger at 173,643,166 grenade kills (yet again, affected by the Sunsingers' super) 2) Bladedancer at 129,281,096 grenade kills 3) Gunslinger at 104,629,378 grenade kills 4) Voidwalker at 98,384,135 grenade kills 5) Striker at 90,707,260 grenade kills 6) Defender at 67,964,843 grenade kills The name of the game ends with "bolt". Magnetic grenade isn't a bad grenade, it's just that few people are willing to sacrifice an offensive super to get plasma grenades....... I mean, Magnetic grenades. Of course. Lightning grenades? They're strong, but won't OHK anyone... So unless you're simply arrogant, stubborn or unattentive, you shouldn't find them game breakingly good (move side-ways, don't try to run away from it- it has the reach of Thor's wrath). Also, have you ever tried to stick an ice cone to the side of a wall? Yes, these babies have a passion for getting stuck in awkward angles. Tripmine... If you consider this a bad grenade then I feel very comfortable to have you know that it's most likely an issue with the operator. This baby can be hidden in tight areas and take out entire herds confused tourists. Seriously, it's not a bad grenade. [b]Source of information[/b]: Destiny Tracker, downloaded at 12:15 PM on the 27th of August 2015, from http://destinytracker.com/destiny/population [b]Authors note[/b]: Statistics on Destiny Tracker are updated every 15 minutes, and thus people will find differing numbers while cross checking the source. Did I miss anything? Grammar or spelling mistake? Are there other issues related to this topic that needs to be raised? Post a comment below! EDIT: [i]On a completely unrelated note. THANK YOU BUNGIE for the great video over at Game Informer. I absolutely loved the return of humour and honesty. You really nailed the description of the community being more like shareholders than hobby gamers. I strongly recommend anyone reading this to look up the Game Informer video (released on the 26th).[/i]

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  • Edited by thedenim: 8/27/2015 5:33:49 PM
    https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/149564781/0/0 The link to the video you are referring to is in this post.

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  • This was oddly soothing.

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  • Good Job. Nice post.

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  • Video was great. Need more of that type of feedback.

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    • First, i havent seen these complaints, second if u have seen them they are about hunters in pve where they can be seen at a disadvantage because of lack of support super. This is fixed in TTK anyway

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      • Edited by DaGroove: 8/27/2015 5:36:22 PM
        The stats don't lie but neither does mine and despite the fact that hunters are only slightly over-represented as a class, my kills in crucible (playing since day one) says that I've killed [b]a lot[/b] more hunters than any other class. So when it comes to crucible hunters are absolutely in precedence, which explains why they are so far ahead in kill stats in comparison to the slightly higher percentage of users. And this is why I will have the hunter kills = more glimmer ghost on every character in crucible when TTK drops :) Really good read! [spoiler]Edit, checked my kills. Hunters: 12k Warlocks: 10,5k Titans: 9,2k [/spoiler]

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        • Well said. Cudos on the research!

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          • In my eyes, with the Titan class its not that the Fist of Havoc is over powered, per se, its that it can be done and activated on a whim at the snap of their fingers and its (seemingly) insane long range. There is no activation delay, seemingly as there is with the Hunters subclasses. Again, this is just how it looks to me, as someone who's main is a Hunter. The other thing that I know I myself and have heard other hunters complain about is the Lightning grenade how it seems to just last forever. Is it supposed to hurt? Of course, but to us, it seems to last forever and a day. Now, obviously for a Titan, they might look at it as it doesn't really last that long and doesn't seem to do a whole lot. Who knows. Lastly, its their Shoulder charge that I know I personally am not a fan of being on the receiving end of it. My whole thing with it, and you can correct me if I am wrong, because again this is just how it seems to me, is that even if I am full health, one shoulder charge is insta-kill and it has some pretty good range to it. Whereas for us as Hunters, it takes two melee hits to kill. Yes, Blink Strike when charged, gives us more range for the strike, but I've had happen numerous times when I use Blink Strike on a Titan, they just shoulder charge me and whack, Im dead. That gets a little frustrating. Could that be lag or game glitch of pure randomness? Sure, probably. But its still annoying. Now am I saying at all that any of these need a buff or nerf? No, not at all. This is just how it all looks to me from my perspective, as someone whos main is a Hunter, and who does not play Titan at all. As well on the flipside, you as a Titan may say similar things in regards to various aspects of the Hunter class as its seen through your eyes. Either way, the post is good, the stats are pretty neat to see and informative to look at. It's stuff like this though that definitely helps shed a little light on certain aspects of the game and such.

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            • First off, I have yet to come across anyone with these complaints. Secondly, let's be honest, hunter's subclasses are less powerful and less useful than the other classes when it comes to PVE.

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              • I'm so confused. People say Arc blade needs a buff? People say gunslinger is useless? Um no. I play as a hunter and people do not say that. I believe you said these were PVP stats. people do not say that nonsense about hunter supers in PVP. PVE is a different story

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                • Meh, blade dancers should lose blink

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                • Bump

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                • It makes no sense why everybody has to complain about their class being weak. They all have trade offs that make certain aspects better and worse so it all depends on your play style for crucible. And the people who complain about their hunters not being strong enough should only complain about two things: we have no DOT(Damage over time) grenades until the new subclass and we can't get rid of our agility to be a tank.

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                • Wow this is impressive

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                  • AhahahahhhhhhHahahahhhaAhahahahhhhhhHahahahhhaAhahahahhhhhhHahahahhhaAhahahahhhhhhHahahahhha. They will never lessen they play little boy hunters... Titans are for actual men.

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                  • I played as blade dancer last night for a round because I haven't in so long and I wrecked so hard with blinking and such I had to switch back cause it felt unfair. I could just teleport behind and shotgun or teleport away. It was a little over the top.

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                  • this is awesome.. thanks for posting this!

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                    • Oh, but wait....once the Titan gets that hammer..this forum will be FILLED with salty tears.

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                      • All of it seemed pretty good, but let's face it the Sunsinger grenade kills and super kills do go hand in hand a bit, so obviously they will have the most grenade kills.

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                      • Edited by An Epic Troll: 8/27/2015 5:22:47 PM
                        Oh and I assume the other classes are under powers and need a nerf? They are all equal. Just played differently. Gunslingers and blade dancers do need a super damage buff for PvE but not PvP.

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                      • Dude, I love this post. And I'm always up for a well intended debate. Allow me to argue that Sunsingers are easily the most OP sub class in Destiny. I will use fact as often as possible to avoid meaningless anecdotes :p While hunters represent the majority of players (35.3%) vs warlocks only at 32.7%, Sunsingers dominate sub class use. Using simple math, and seeing that hunters are split evenly between blades and slingers, each hunter sub class represents [b]17.7%[/b] of all sub classes. Now take the warlocks into account. 62% of 32.7% is [b]20.3%[/b]. Neither titan class comes close, so we can conclude that [u]sunsingers are the most used sub class[/u]. But why? It's pretty obvious - everything they have is a leader. Their grenades have racked up FAR more kills than the second highest. Melee is also FAR above the second highest. Super is a more complicated story. The sunsinger comes in fourth place. But there are qualitative reasons as to why a sunsingers super is more advantageous. Look at the three above sunsinger. Golden Gun, Bladedancer and FoH. All three of those simply kill. Nothing more, nothing less. So from an "ability to kill" perspective, they are superior to the sunsinger. However, a sunsinger can REVIVE HIMSELF. IMO, reviving yourself and getting a few less kills is infinitely more powerful that just having a few more kills. You've done it. You've proved your point. I'm not bitching about what you've proved isn't true. But I have always bitched about Sunsingers. Can you rebuttal my argument? Or are my complaints well justified and supported? I really hope you respond :)

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                      • #Rekt

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                      • couldn't be bothered to read but good post

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                        • Good post. Very thorough. I am also very tired of Hunters whining about the their new post.

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                          • Amen! Thanks for saying something that most of the community should know by now, but some won't admit it. As a main Titan I just play the game the way its made and deal with Hunters & Warlocks wrecking my shit. Oh and beleive me I have been wrecked. Nice job OP.

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                            • THANK YOU DAMMIT!

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