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Destiny

Discuss all things Destiny.
Edited by 传说中的 Ghost: 8/28/2015 11:37:38 AM
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By popular crybaby demand

[b]TLDR[/b] (too long; didn't read): [i]There are people who, believe it or not, claim that Hunters' both subclasses are [b]under-powered[/b] in PvP. Some even claim that Titans' Striker class is [b]over-powered[/b] in PvP. This topic will give you statistics that suggests that both cases are false. The source of information can be found [url=http://destinytracker.com/destiny/population]here[/url].[/i] [b]Note 1:[/b] [i]This thread has been edited to be less flamatory and more informative. Whoever wants a copy of the original can simply send me a PM.[/i] [b]Note 2:[/b] [i]This topic is focused on Bladedancers, Gunslingers and Strikers and therefor dedicate very little attention to the other subclasses. Some people are wondering both if and how Sunsingers super effects the rest of the stats, and the answer is yes. Due to Sunsingers super giving the player a significant reduction in ability cool-down, Sunsingers are at the top of both the Melee Kill Count (PvP) table and the Grenade Kill Count (PvP) table- this does however not mean that both their melee attacks and grenades are not great (without the super active) in PvP. Some people also wonder how Defender titans can have super kills due to their super being passive. I don't have the actual facts on this one, but me and other forumers are theorising that kills under the effect of either Weapons of Light, Blessings of Light or Armor of Light (i.e. kills inside the Ward of Dawn) count towards the Defender's Super Kill Count (PvP) table.[/i] [u]_________________________________________________[/u] Like a Gunslinger with Golden Gun I am here to burst your bubbles of misconception and delusion, with facts derived from statistics. Bladedancers and Gunslingers (from here on referred to simply as "Hunters) are not under-powered, and Strikers are not over-powered. Now I know that some of you will dispute the statistics' significance- and by all means do so... But if you have nothing but anecdotes to offer, chances are slim that anyone will care about what you have to say. Let's start by clearing out the demographics in the crucible, across all platforms (Xbox 360, Xbox One, Playstation 3, Playstation 4): 34.2% currently play as Hunters 33.6% currently play as Warlocks 32.2% currently play as Titans As you can see, no class is over-represented, thus can we deduce that none of the following stats will be skewed to a point of being completely unreliable or misrepresentative (think margine of error and natural breaks in population). Top 100 players (by class) 1st place: Hunters at 36.1% 2nd place: Titans at 32.6% 3rd place: Warlocks at 31.3% Congratulations Hunters! You are the Kings and Queens of the hill. Top 10,000 players (the average Joe, by class) 1st place: Hunters at 35.3% 2nd place: Warlocks at 32.7% 3rd place: Titans at 32% Congratulations Hunters! Yet again you're at the top. Let's break down the subclass demographics: [u]Hunters[/u] (34.2% of the population) 51% Bladedancers 49% Gunslingers [u]Titans[/u] (32.2% of the population) 47% Defenders 53% Strikers [u]Warlocks[/u] (33.6% of the population) 62% Sunsingers 38% Voidwalkers Let's have a look at the AVERAGE KDR: [u]Hunters[/u] Bladedancers > 1 Gunslingers > 1 [u]Titans[/u] Defender < 1 Striker < 1 [u]Warlocks[/u] Voidwalker < 1 Sunsinger < 1 As most of you know, the current (since shortly prior to HoW) PvP meta game consists of an exotic handcannon and a shotgun: 1) Handcannons 1,466,551,647 kills 2) Shotguns 1,441,875,593 kills 3) Melee 1,082,244,380 kills A common complaint is how Titans Shoulder charge is over-powered, so let's see who's the worst perpetraitor in the Crucible. 1) Sunsingers 281,325,978 (26% of) melee kills (as previously mentioned, effected by their super- but still lethal outside) 2) Strikers 193,989,846 (17.93% of) melee kills (Shoulder charge is not the standard melee kill, but does count towards melee kills) 3) Bladedancer 175,413,331 melee kills (Arcblade does not count toward melee kills) 4) Voidwalker 14.84% 5) Defender 13.65% 6) Gunslinger 11.37% (throwing what?) To some players the Shoulder charge is a real problem, but I'm also sure I'm not the only one who has cursed the range and weight behind a warlock's air slap. Hmm. Gunslingers though, thumbs up if you know how to throw your knife. Now onto the real problem. Arcblade and Golden Gun needs a buff? Fist of Havoc needs a nerf? 1) Bladedancer at 207,596,562 kills (21.73%) 2) Gunslinger at 179,520,390 kills (18.79%) 3) Striker at 178,059,836 kills (18.64%) 4) Sunsinger at 15.71% 5) Voidwalker at 12.60% 6) Defender 12.52% So, now that we've established that Hunters get the absolute highest amount of kills with their supers, I think it's safe to say that neither Hunter super needs adjustments towards the better. As a part of class balancing the Hunter supers are very different from the other supers; they offer little damage income reduction (i.e. shields and health regeneration- EXOTICS EXCLUDED FOR VALID REASONS). In short, a hunter can get great rewards at great risks. Striker Titans are harder to stop. Can they be countered? Absolutely, but not in the traditional manner: you have to kill them before they close the gap to you. Waiting around the corner? Well... If someone want to use their super to do what a traditional shotgun can do just as good... Isn't that their loss? Anyways, the last myth to debunk: Hunter grenades are lackluster (under-powered), Magnetic grenades and Lightning grenades are OP: 1) Sunsinger at 173,643,166 grenade kills (yet again, affected by the Sunsingers' super) 2) Bladedancer at 129,281,096 grenade kills 3) Gunslinger at 104,629,378 grenade kills 4) Voidwalker at 98,384,135 grenade kills 5) Striker at 90,707,260 grenade kills 6) Defender at 67,964,843 grenade kills The name of the game ends with "bolt". Magnetic grenade isn't a bad grenade, it's just that few people are willing to sacrifice an offensive super to get plasma grenades....... I mean, Magnetic grenades. Of course. Lightning grenades? They're strong, but won't OHK anyone... So unless you're simply arrogant, stubborn or unattentive, you shouldn't find them game breakingly good (move side-ways, don't try to run away from it- it has the reach of Thor's wrath). Also, have you ever tried to stick an ice cone to the side of a wall? Yes, these babies have a passion for getting stuck in awkward angles. Tripmine... If you consider this a bad grenade then I feel very comfortable to have you know that it's most likely an issue with the operator. This baby can be hidden in tight areas and take out entire herds confused tourists. Seriously, it's not a bad grenade. [b]Source of information[/b]: Destiny Tracker, downloaded at 12:15 PM on the 27th of August 2015, from http://destinytracker.com/destiny/population [b]Authors note[/b]: Statistics on Destiny Tracker are updated every 15 minutes, and thus people will find differing numbers while cross checking the source. Did I miss anything? Grammar or spelling mistake? Are there other issues related to this topic that needs to be raised? Post a comment below! EDIT: [i]On a completely unrelated note. THANK YOU BUNGIE for the great video over at Game Informer. I absolutely loved the return of humour and honesty. You really nailed the description of the community being more like shareholders than hobby gamers. I strongly recommend anyone reading this to look up the Game Informer video (released on the 26th).[/i]

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  • Honest question, what does this mean for me, being a Gunslinger hunter who prefers pulse rifles and sniper rifles over BD and blink? Am I a baddie? Just messing man, great read, some surprising stats. Thank you for sharing. Way too may folks whining over OP this, Nerf that! BAAAAAW! I look forward to seeing how this may or may not change come TTK

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    • The link doesn't seem to work for me. Where on the site can I find this info?

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      • Silly ma aiq, you are in the wrong universe go back to skyrim and continue your adventure of lies!

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        • How do defenders have 12% of super kills... Lol they cant get kills with their super.....

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          • Nice post... Info given to back up claims... You sir are rarity on the forums. Props to you!

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          • Everything was right until the nades part. Of course sunsingers going to have more kills than any other subclass since their super is basically a nade spammer. That excludes sunsingers from that list.

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            • Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you

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            • Golden Gun is fine in PvP, it needs a PvE buff though. Hunters don't need changing in PvP, the change that really needs to happen is the rebalance, which imo can't really come soon enough

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            • -blam!- Deej Hire this guy. Also, -blam!- off Deejs' gay brother cosmo

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              • I main a titan and my main weapon is a pulse rifle and a sniper and almost every game of mine has a good KD

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                • If only the average forumite had the attention span to read this and the comprehension skills to appreciate it...

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                  • Bump

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                  • If you can't throwing knife then shoot a handcannon or vice versa as Hunter you need to change. -blam!- supers or grenades.

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                  • Yaaaas

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                  • There is nothing you can say to convince me that the hunter supers aren't useless in pve. Other than celestial nighthawk of course

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                    • This is amazing stuff dude. Great work!

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                    • I'll never understand why people think class rebalancing is what we need for PvP. In my opinion, the fact that trading kills happens so often that its expected. Between just a tiny bit of lag and the slow speed of projectiles it just leads to pure bullshit.

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                    • The stats are Destiny Tracker are ok but it is difficult to say what is really in them and what they mean. Are they averaging from day 1? What counts as a super kill? The first set of stats listed above say crucible but stats page does not, is it actually stats for PvE + PvP? I am not sure this is the place to get any definitive answers

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                    • I agree with most of it, one thing puzzles me.... [quote]6) Defender 12.52%[/quote] Are those super kills? with Ward of dawn? And that the Sunsinger rules the grenade category is only part due to having good 'nades, but also due to the fact that Sunsinger throw much more of 'em.....

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                      • I adore everything about your post, the logic, that stats, all of it. Although... You know when this thread dies, assuming it does, that you have to put "M'aiq is done talking, go away." ...You know it to be true.

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                        • Nice work! I love a good statistical analysis.

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                        • One word, wow!

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                          This is Crucible related though. Hunters are pretty lackluster in pve since their only saving grace is invisibility.

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                          • M'aiq knows much, and tells some.

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                            • I don't trust a word you say..

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                              • use all 3 classes, mix up sub-class gameplay, be a pro not a ho. /thread

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