[b]TLDR[/b] (too long; didn't read):
[i]There are people who, believe it or not, claim that Hunters' both subclasses are [b]under-powered[/b] in PvP. Some even claim that Titans' Striker class is [b]over-powered[/b] in PvP. This topic will give you statistics that suggests that both cases are false. The source of information can be found [url=http://destinytracker.com/destiny/population]here[/url].[/i]
[b]Note 1:[/b]
[i]This thread has been edited to be less flamatory and more informative. Whoever wants a copy of the original can simply send me a PM.[/i]
[b]Note 2:[/b]
[i]This topic is focused on Bladedancers, Gunslingers and Strikers and therefor dedicate very little attention to the other subclasses. Some people are wondering both if and how Sunsingers super effects the rest of the stats, and the answer is yes. Due to Sunsingers super giving the player a significant reduction in ability cool-down, Sunsingers are at the top of both the Melee Kill Count (PvP) table and the Grenade Kill Count (PvP) table- this does however not mean that both their melee attacks and grenades are not great (without the super active) in PvP.
Some people also wonder how Defender titans can have super kills due to their super being passive. I don't have the actual facts on this one, but me and other forumers are theorising that kills under the effect of either Weapons of Light, Blessings of Light or Armor of Light (i.e. kills inside the Ward of Dawn) count towards the Defender's Super Kill Count (PvP) table.[/i]
[u]_________________________________________________[/u]
Like a Gunslinger with Golden Gun I am here to burst your bubbles of misconception and delusion, with facts derived from statistics. Bladedancers and Gunslingers (from here on referred to simply as "Hunters) are not under-powered, and Strikers are not over-powered. Now I know that some of you will dispute the statistics' significance- and by all means do so... But if you have nothing but anecdotes to offer, chances are slim that anyone will care about what you have to say.
Let's start by clearing out the demographics in the crucible, across all platforms (Xbox 360, Xbox One, Playstation 3, Playstation 4):
34.2% currently play as Hunters
33.6% currently play as Warlocks
32.2% currently play as Titans
As you can see, no class is over-represented, thus can we deduce that none of the following stats will be skewed to a point of being completely unreliable or misrepresentative (think margine of error and natural breaks in population).
Top 100 players (by class)
1st place: Hunters at 36.1%
2nd place: Titans at 32.6%
3rd place: Warlocks at 31.3%
Congratulations Hunters! You are the Kings and Queens of the hill.
Top 10,000 players (the average Joe, by class)
1st place: Hunters at 35.3%
2nd place: Warlocks at 32.7%
3rd place: Titans at 32%
Congratulations Hunters! Yet again you're at the top.
Let's break down the subclass demographics:
[u]Hunters[/u] (34.2% of the population)
51% Bladedancers
49% Gunslingers
[u]Titans[/u] (32.2% of the population)
47% Defenders
53% Strikers
[u]Warlocks[/u] (33.6% of the population)
62% Sunsingers
38% Voidwalkers
Let's have a look at the AVERAGE KDR:
[u]Hunters[/u]
Bladedancers > 1
Gunslingers > 1
[u]Titans[/u]
Defender < 1
Striker < 1
[u]Warlocks[/u]
Voidwalker < 1
Sunsinger < 1
As most of you know, the current (since shortly prior to HoW) PvP meta game consists of an exotic handcannon and a shotgun:
1) Handcannons
1,466,551,647 kills
2) Shotguns
1,441,875,593 kills
3) Melee
1,082,244,380 kills
A common complaint is how Titans Shoulder charge is over-powered, so let's see who's the worst perpetraitor in the Crucible.
1) Sunsingers
281,325,978 (26% of) melee kills (as previously mentioned, effected by their super- but still lethal outside)
2) Strikers
193,989,846 (17.93% of) melee kills (Shoulder charge is not the standard melee kill, but does count towards melee kills)
3) Bladedancer
175,413,331 melee kills (Arcblade does not count toward melee kills)
4) Voidwalker 14.84%
5) Defender 13.65%
6) Gunslinger 11.37% (throwing what?)
To some players the Shoulder charge is a real problem, but I'm also sure I'm not the only one who has cursed the range and weight behind a warlock's air slap. Hmm. Gunslingers though, thumbs up if you know how to throw your knife.
Now onto the real problem. Arcblade and Golden Gun needs a buff? Fist of Havoc needs a nerf?
1) Bladedancer at 207,596,562 kills (21.73%)
2) Gunslinger at 179,520,390 kills (18.79%)
3) Striker at 178,059,836 kills (18.64%)
4) Sunsinger at 15.71%
5) Voidwalker at 12.60%
6) Defender 12.52%
So, now that we've established that Hunters get the absolute highest amount of kills with their supers, I think it's safe to say that neither Hunter super needs adjustments towards the better. As a part of class balancing the Hunter supers are very different from the other supers; they offer little damage income reduction (i.e. shields and health regeneration- EXOTICS EXCLUDED FOR VALID REASONS). In short, a hunter can get great rewards at great risks.
Striker Titans are harder to stop. Can they be countered? Absolutely, but not in the traditional manner: you have to kill them before they close the gap to you. Waiting around the corner? Well... If someone want to use their super to do what a traditional shotgun can do just as good... Isn't that their loss?
Anyways, the last myth to debunk: Hunter grenades are lackluster (under-powered), Magnetic grenades and Lightning grenades are OP:
1) Sunsinger at 173,643,166 grenade kills (yet again, affected by the Sunsingers' super)
2) Bladedancer at 129,281,096 grenade kills
3) Gunslinger at 104,629,378 grenade kills
4) Voidwalker at 98,384,135 grenade kills
5) Striker at 90,707,260 grenade kills
6) Defender at 67,964,843 grenade kills
The name of the game ends with "bolt". Magnetic grenade isn't a bad grenade, it's just that few people are willing to sacrifice an offensive super to get plasma grenades....... I mean, Magnetic grenades. Of course. Lightning grenades? They're strong, but won't OHK anyone... So unless you're simply arrogant, stubborn or unattentive, you shouldn't find them game breakingly good (move side-ways, don't try to run away from it- it has the reach of Thor's wrath). Also, have you ever tried to stick an ice cone to the side of a wall? Yes, these babies have a passion for getting stuck in awkward angles.
Tripmine... If you consider this a bad grenade then I feel very comfortable to have you know that it's most likely an issue with the operator. This baby can be hidden in tight areas and take out entire herds confused tourists. Seriously, it's not a bad grenade.
[b]Source of information[/b]:
Destiny Tracker, downloaded at 12:15 PM on the 27th of August 2015, from http://destinytracker.com/destiny/population
[b]Authors note[/b]:
Statistics on Destiny Tracker are updated every 15 minutes, and thus people will find differing numbers while cross checking the source.
Did I miss anything? Grammar or spelling mistake? Are there other issues related to this topic that needs to be raised? Post a comment below!
EDIT:
[i]On a completely unrelated note. THANK YOU BUNGIE for the great video over at Game Informer. I absolutely loved the return of humour and honesty. You really nailed the description of the community being more like shareholders than hobby gamers. I strongly recommend anyone reading this to look up the Game Informer video (released on the 26th).[/i]
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Makes me proud to be a Gunslinger Hunter, and yes, I will take that thumbs up for my knife throwing haha. Nice statistical analysis man. Was a good read.
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Nigguh please, Us sun singers also uses fusion grenades, please be sure to add that in.
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I main other.
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Edited by Semkage: 8/27/2015 10:39:46 PMtitans are the weakest pvp class out of the three
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As a Titan Main, I'm glad these whining Hunters brought into the light of Justice.
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Thank you for actually supplying data for your claim. Anyone with a decent amount of experience and understanding with each subclass will tell you this is true, now we have the numbers to back it up.
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Calm down kids, it's just a game.
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Reply for later
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Nice work! I've been saying they all play the same since launch. It's not the tools, it's the operators. I seem to do 1.3kd regardless of class or subclass, I'm just a 1.3 player.
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And here we have a massive crying thread dedicated to a perceived notion that hunters cry more than other classes. Pro tip: every class has aspects that are unbalanced in the right hands. If yall spent as much time in the crucible as you do trying to defend your class you'd be gods.
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Edited by SergeantDoc: 8/28/2015 2:03:04 AMHunter players [i]tend[/i] to be more tactically minded. They have to be to get around [b]not[/b] having homing one hit kill grenades with lasting one hit kill effects. Gunslingers have the only melee with travel time and that can [i]miss[/i]. Our jumps are useful but can't reach the same height and our supers are not able to be used in a panic like [i]literally every other super[/i]. With that in mind, I'm not surprised by these results, but it still stings that Hunters seem underpowered in a one on one scenario.
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This guy just merked hunters
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Hello fellow Titan!
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I don't believe this is accurate at all
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Says the guy who doesn't have a hunter. Gunslinger class other than the super is complete TRASH. And Bladedancer is sooo easy to kill if you know half way what your doing. Hunters may have the most super kills but who has the most melee and grenade kills. Oh wait, it's warlocks. Be biased all you want, but we all know that hunters are NOT overpowered nor the best.
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You seplled humor wrong! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!
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This game isn't balanced. You're wasting your time.
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Edited by fatymatpat: 8/27/2015 11:33:12 PMYou're using the averages from an entire year of playing.. None of this is accurate anymore. Half the people that got those kills could not even be playing anymore, or they may have even switched classes. Basically I see a lot of numbers and words followers by "And you thought Titans were bad, bla bla bla" Trying to stop the community from bitching by bitching, and anyone who actually thinks that hunters bitch the most on this forum has to [b]LITERALLY[/b] be scrolling through with there head firmly tucked into their anus. Hunter supers were nerfed who knows how many times at this point. But I guess it was hunters complaining about other hunters killing hunters which got the nerf right? Seriously warlocks and Titans have to stop being such hypocritical douche bags, just because you picked a class doesn't mean you're better than anyone else. [spoiler]To me everyone on here is a piece of shit, and your garbage post added to the list[/spoiler] Since you like using old demographics maybe try to figure out how people live today by using a census taken in 1994, because that's basically what you did here. Edit: Lol right now there is a thread called "Coolest way you've killed a BD solo." Yea you're all a bunch of scum bags.
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Edited by Smash House Breck: 8/28/2015 12:59:32 AMThey aren't weak though. Why can't other people see this?
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Too many changes. Too much Gearicide. I'll be looking forward to the inevitable Destiny Classic. #wejustneededmorecontent
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When a friend finally dragged me into Destiny a few months back, he said this when I asked about the classes: "Hunters are cheap. Warlocks are easy. And Titans are adorable..." After playing all classes I can agree with his jest. And in the end, I settled on being adorable.....
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Edited by Knox19Delta: 8/28/2015 12:16:53 AMWouldn't this Information be wrong from the start if more people play Hunters? So if their stats are high it's because more people play that class which = higher % of accumulated kills because more people play hunters. Charts and graphs always annoy me at work. People never use common sense.
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The reason we do "whine" about the gunslinger super being underpowered is not because of its killing power but because every other super gets an over shield and we don't, if you want to tell someone to stop whining, tell titans to stop whining over blink, its completely over rated to be honest
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I think when people complain about Hunter's being weak they mean how bad the supers are in PvE.
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Nerf first place!
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Titans grenades are better than hunters grenades though. Hunter is the easiest class to use to get kills but if you know how to use a Titan right then you're easily 10x better than any hunter