[b]TLDR[/b] (too long; didn't read):
[i]There are people who, believe it or not, claim that Hunters' both subclasses are [b]under-powered[/b] in PvP. Some even claim that Titans' Striker class is [b]over-powered[/b] in PvP. This topic will give you statistics that suggests that both cases are false. The source of information can be found [url=http://destinytracker.com/destiny/population]here[/url].[/i]
[b]Note 1:[/b]
[i]This thread has been edited to be less flamatory and more informative. Whoever wants a copy of the original can simply send me a PM.[/i]
[b]Note 2:[/b]
[i]This topic is focused on Bladedancers, Gunslingers and Strikers and therefor dedicate very little attention to the other subclasses. Some people are wondering both if and how Sunsingers super effects the rest of the stats, and the answer is yes. Due to Sunsingers super giving the player a significant reduction in ability cool-down, Sunsingers are at the top of both the Melee Kill Count (PvP) table and the Grenade Kill Count (PvP) table- this does however not mean that both their melee attacks and grenades are not great (without the super active) in PvP.
Some people also wonder how Defender titans can have super kills due to their super being passive. I don't have the actual facts on this one, but me and other forumers are theorising that kills under the effect of either Weapons of Light, Blessings of Light or Armor of Light (i.e. kills inside the Ward of Dawn) count towards the Defender's Super Kill Count (PvP) table.[/i]
[u]_________________________________________________[/u]
Like a Gunslinger with Golden Gun I am here to burst your bubbles of misconception and delusion, with facts derived from statistics. Bladedancers and Gunslingers (from here on referred to simply as "Hunters) are not under-powered, and Strikers are not over-powered. Now I know that some of you will dispute the statistics' significance- and by all means do so... But if you have nothing but anecdotes to offer, chances are slim that anyone will care about what you have to say.
Let's start by clearing out the demographics in the crucible, across all platforms (Xbox 360, Xbox One, Playstation 3, Playstation 4):
34.2% currently play as Hunters
33.6% currently play as Warlocks
32.2% currently play as Titans
As you can see, no class is over-represented, thus can we deduce that none of the following stats will be skewed to a point of being completely unreliable or misrepresentative (think margine of error and natural breaks in population).
Top 100 players (by class)
1st place: Hunters at 36.1%
2nd place: Titans at 32.6%
3rd place: Warlocks at 31.3%
Congratulations Hunters! You are the Kings and Queens of the hill.
Top 10,000 players (the average Joe, by class)
1st place: Hunters at 35.3%
2nd place: Warlocks at 32.7%
3rd place: Titans at 32%
Congratulations Hunters! Yet again you're at the top.
Let's break down the subclass demographics:
[u]Hunters[/u] (34.2% of the population)
51% Bladedancers
49% Gunslingers
[u]Titans[/u] (32.2% of the population)
47% Defenders
53% Strikers
[u]Warlocks[/u] (33.6% of the population)
62% Sunsingers
38% Voidwalkers
Let's have a look at the AVERAGE KDR:
[u]Hunters[/u]
Bladedancers > 1
Gunslingers > 1
[u]Titans[/u]
Defender < 1
Striker < 1
[u]Warlocks[/u]
Voidwalker < 1
Sunsinger < 1
As most of you know, the current (since shortly prior to HoW) PvP meta game consists of an exotic handcannon and a shotgun:
1) Handcannons
1,466,551,647 kills
2) Shotguns
1,441,875,593 kills
3) Melee
1,082,244,380 kills
A common complaint is how Titans Shoulder charge is over-powered, so let's see who's the worst perpetraitor in the Crucible.
1) Sunsingers
281,325,978 (26% of) melee kills (as previously mentioned, effected by their super- but still lethal outside)
2) Strikers
193,989,846 (17.93% of) melee kills (Shoulder charge is not the standard melee kill, but does count towards melee kills)
3) Bladedancer
175,413,331 melee kills (Arcblade does not count toward melee kills)
4) Voidwalker 14.84%
5) Defender 13.65%
6) Gunslinger 11.37% (throwing what?)
To some players the Shoulder charge is a real problem, but I'm also sure I'm not the only one who has cursed the range and weight behind a warlock's air slap. Hmm. Gunslingers though, thumbs up if you know how to throw your knife.
Now onto the real problem. Arcblade and Golden Gun needs a buff? Fist of Havoc needs a nerf?
1) Bladedancer at 207,596,562 kills (21.73%)
2) Gunslinger at 179,520,390 kills (18.79%)
3) Striker at 178,059,836 kills (18.64%)
4) Sunsinger at 15.71%
5) Voidwalker at 12.60%
6) Defender 12.52%
So, now that we've established that Hunters get the absolute highest amount of kills with their supers, I think it's safe to say that neither Hunter super needs adjustments towards the better. As a part of class balancing the Hunter supers are very different from the other supers; they offer little damage income reduction (i.e. shields and health regeneration- EXOTICS EXCLUDED FOR VALID REASONS). In short, a hunter can get great rewards at great risks.
Striker Titans are harder to stop. Can they be countered? Absolutely, but not in the traditional manner: you have to kill them before they close the gap to you. Waiting around the corner? Well... If someone want to use their super to do what a traditional shotgun can do just as good... Isn't that their loss?
Anyways, the last myth to debunk: Hunter grenades are lackluster (under-powered), Magnetic grenades and Lightning grenades are OP:
1) Sunsinger at 173,643,166 grenade kills (yet again, affected by the Sunsingers' super)
2) Bladedancer at 129,281,096 grenade kills
3) Gunslinger at 104,629,378 grenade kills
4) Voidwalker at 98,384,135 grenade kills
5) Striker at 90,707,260 grenade kills
6) Defender at 67,964,843 grenade kills
The name of the game ends with "bolt". Magnetic grenade isn't a bad grenade, it's just that few people are willing to sacrifice an offensive super to get plasma grenades....... I mean, Magnetic grenades. Of course. Lightning grenades? They're strong, but won't OHK anyone... So unless you're simply arrogant, stubborn or unattentive, you shouldn't find them game breakingly good (move side-ways, don't try to run away from it- it has the reach of Thor's wrath). Also, have you ever tried to stick an ice cone to the side of a wall? Yes, these babies have a passion for getting stuck in awkward angles.
Tripmine... If you consider this a bad grenade then I feel very comfortable to have you know that it's most likely an issue with the operator. This baby can be hidden in tight areas and take out entire herds confused tourists. Seriously, it's not a bad grenade.
[b]Source of information[/b]:
Destiny Tracker, downloaded at 12:15 PM on the 27th of August 2015, from http://destinytracker.com/destiny/population
[b]Authors note[/b]:
Statistics on Destiny Tracker are updated every 15 minutes, and thus people will find differing numbers while cross checking the source.
Did I miss anything? Grammar or spelling mistake? Are there other issues related to this topic that needs to be raised? Post a comment below!
EDIT:
[i]On a completely unrelated note. THANK YOU BUNGIE for the great video over at Game Informer. I absolutely loved the return of humour and honesty. You really nailed the description of the community being more like shareholders than hobby gamers. I strongly recommend anyone reading this to look up the Game Informer video (released on the 26th).[/i]
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Edited by Nezdude87: 8/28/2015 3:06:46 PMI'm a Hunter who plays my fair share of PvP with ALL classes (if you look at my Titan, it's my second Titan, I assure you I've played much more with one and fully understand its abilities), been here since Beta. This will be a long post, sorry. First of all, all supers are OP, bottom line. I used to run Gunslinger as my preferred PvP class, as I felt more comfortable at a longer range. Golden Gun is perfect for that, and IMO, is the single most powerful super in the game in a skilled player's hands. However, the class itself offers hardly anything for PvP. Tripmine is my favorite grenade in the game for any activity, but that wasn't enough to keep me from switching to Blade Dancer. Arcbolt works pretty well at weakening or finishing off enemies. Blink is, well, Blink. We all know how deadly it is whether you run it or not. As someone who has mastered Blink and fully utilizes it to disorient opponents, I DO feel that it is game-breaking in the right hands. Most people have a general idea of how it works and can do well enough with it, but there are countless others like me who could run the hardest Super Mario Bros level you can think of and land our jumps on a needle using it. Not bragging, I'm saying this because it actually is a problem overall. Now, the controversial part: Arc Blade. Arc Blade is not OP, there, I said it. If you're a player who is worried about your K/D, it is a TERRIBLE super. Yes, you can get a couple kills, but it is a death sentence and requires MUCH more thought than Golden Gun, by far. Once upon a time, for the longest time, this was considered by everyone the most OP thing in the game, and I agreed a bit more with it than I do now at that point. However, I can't count the times I've been stopped dead in my tracks by Fist of Havoc, Nova Bomb, and Golden Gun, or just been gunned down. The Crucible has adapted and it is very obvious, someone is ready to counter Arc Blade on most teams. Yes, Arc Blade has the potential to kill all members and kill again when they respawn, but in order for that to happen, they all have to be pretty close. Even then, they have to have some terrible aim, because three people firing can down Arc Blade. But let's say I get a full team kill. Nova Bomb, Fist of Havoc, Golden Gun, even Radiance if used correctly, could do the same in the same situation of catching a team together. They are all called Supers because they are all powerful in their own way. I think that is something that has to be recognized by everyone. If you have your super up and the enemy does not, you will get a kill. If the enemy has his up and you do not, he will get a kill. If you both do, then you better hope your super is the counter to his. Until there is a game mode with no supers (and a few other variables omitted), then we ALL have to agree that ALL supers are OP and move on. Golden Gun is still stupidly strong, especially in Trials, and to me, it does stand out above the rest in the right hands. But it is still based on player skill and knowledge of his/her surroundings, and has to be popped at the right time to utilize the 3 or 4 shots. You can't panic super with it or you die. If I had to pick one reason I run Blade Dancer over Gunslinger, it's the combination of abilities on the second half of the skill tree. I mix it up between Backstab and Fast Twitch. Before I go on I do want to say that Backstab needs work from Bungie's end. I've melee'd someone straight up in the face and killed them from full health because it registered as a Backstab. It is literally a broken element and needs fixing, for sure. Fast Twitch is nice, since I can totally neglect Strength and still have a good cooldown on my Melee. Everyone has a preference for their attribute setups, I prefer max armor and the highest agility that allows, neglecting recovery. I find myself in situations where recovery would've been nice, but I would've been dead in the first place if armor wasn't maxed, so it's really preference IMO. QUICK DRAW! The single most OP perk in the crucible. Alone, it's not so bad, really. But with a shotgun with shot package (like everyone has), good god. Blink shotgun, blink shotgun, blink shotgun. I like shotguns, so don't bash me as a scrub with no skill, I want balance. My main reason for switching to this class from gunslinger was this perk alone, hands down. I'm a pretty good sniper, so using p. revenge and being able to quickscope is ridiculously effective. I miss my golden gun, yes, but I get more kills and live more often even without using a super, period, with Quick Draw. Once I realized what I had with this perk, I went and rolled myself a Party Crasher that is God-tier with Felwinter's, and saw how broken the game really is. Again, if you shoot where you want me to blink, I can do it, along with quite a few other players. I can blink perfectly into your face, quickly aim to get my shot package to engage, and blow your body to pieces (gore in destiny would be brutal with all the shotty's). This, well...this is a problem. People say you can counter blink shotgunners by simply jumping. True for the majority who switched over to try and be OP, but not true for experienced players just waiting for it. I won't burn both blinks closing the gap, and if i do, I can blink a third time in a row because of an exploit with switching your guns. You won't stop me or others unless we make an error, and THAT is where this game is flawed. There is a set of abilities that grant me a guaranteed kill unless -I- screw it up. You're in the corner capping C on Burning shrine, I run out of the middle hallway, shotgun ready. I blink once at the apex of my jump so it moves me straight ahead, not upward at an angle, and I'm in your face or in sliding distance instantly ADS with my party crasher. If you run toward the heavy spawn, I have another blink to immediately close the gap. If you jump, I have a third thanks to an exploit. You won't live, and that needs to be addressed. I'm gonna stop there, and I'm all open for discussion. I'm not saying I'm the best at anything in the crucible, but I do fairly well and wanted to share my knowledge and experiences using the OP setup as someone who wants this game to be as balanced as possible moving forward. I love this game and the community, even when it's totally toxic, because we all love this game. Sorry for the long post, I could've shortened it down a bit, but didn't feel like revising and just left it as is.