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9/6/2015 9:33:07 PM
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I believe a lot of people who claim to be atheists are agnostic, as I am. Basically meaning I don't have proof against the existence of any religion's gods but I also have no definitive proof of their existence and therefore can't bring myself to believe in them.
A lot of atheists are also more about disliking what the religion stands for or the people within it and disrespecting their religion by saying it's all fake. No one can prove anything one way or another.
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Believing in God takes faith, and faith in his words. God demands this of us because we need to earn heaven, by using our free will and deciding to follow him. Agnosticism is simply standing between 2 sides and not having the guys to take a side.
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So the millions of people that lives and died in places that had not heard gods message were just by default sent to hell? Without the word of god given to them and the correct path to follow they had to end up in hell right? Must have been a nice surprise after they died. I know you've never heard of this religion or this god but since you didn't follow his word you will burn in hell forever. Its your own fault for not being born in the right part of the world.
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God will reveal himself to anyone truly seeking the truth. Even if they don't start looking for the Christian God, he will reveal himself, be it through visions or dreams or missionaries. He has given everyone a starting point. http://bible.com/100/rom.1.19-20.nasb because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
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There is something called "Baptism of desire". Also, the catholic church teaches that all men have a chance, or series of chances, to acknowledge God and try to live their lives to serve Him.
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And further while there is some leeway in describing how god judges those who are in ignorance in some situations, infants and such and may also apply to people who have never been exposed to the word of God there is very little ambiguity about those who worship false gods, as the Native Americans would have been viewed to have done. In which case the only people who could ascend to heaven among them would have been those who rejected their gods, and didn't believe in them. So it is even possible that by rejecting christianity I am avoiding committing the sin of worshipping a false god in place of the real god who has not revealed himself to us (our planet or such) And thus avoiding being damned to hell.
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I agree with you, they would probably have to reject their false gods. Unfortunately I'm not God and I can't tell you how they will be judged. But because God is just, everyone has at least a chance, if not more than 1.
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So you use Christian church teaching to say that "rejecting Christian god because it might be false God"?
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Edited by Pellmell54: 9/7/2015 1:12:00 AMNaw, just pointing out a possibility, not one I believe in. An interesting thought to think that maybe just as Native Americans were ignorant of the word of the True God because of where they were born and lived, there could be a possibility of us being ignorant of a True God due to the planet we live on. Not really an argument, just an interesting thought.
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It comes down to conscience in a large part I guess. There is right and wrong and there is such a thing as universal morality.
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Edited by Pellmell54: 9/7/2015 12:26:18 AMAnd that is where is loses me. Can it really offer any evidence of native american tribes having any knowledge of god prior to the settlers arriving and shortly after that the kill or convert effort the Puritans waged against them? I'm sorry, but i find the idea that every native american prior to the arrival of European settlers had at one point in their life, a light bulb that flickered on in their head, exposed them to the word and truth of god, and that every single time they simply decided to ignore it and forget it ever happened to be beyond far-fectched.
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I feel you. It's tough. But God is merciful. The Indians would not all magically know about the church and Jesus Christ like you said. Rather, they all had a moment or several in their lives where they had to choose with free will whether it not to do good or do bad. Everyone with free will has a conscience, and they had to use it to make the good decision.
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My "side" if you'll have me choose one, is that I don't believe in a god, but I'm not going to sit around telling people their gods aren't real because I don't have definite knowledge of that.
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If God exists and you believe, you have everything to gain. If He does exist and you choose not to believe, you lose. If he doesn't exist? Then you've lived your life with purpose.
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Edited by iV K0MAT0SE Vi: 9/6/2015 10:13:55 PMPascal's wager is a load of crap. I don't need a book to tell me how to live a life of purpose
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I believe that regardless of whether someone believes in a god they can live their life with purpose. If a god does exist, then good for everyone who believed, they were right. If a god doesn't exist, that's too bad. For the sake of the people who dedicate their life to a god, I hope they find that god to exist. I don't wish upon anyone who believes in one to be wrong, as people dedicate their lives to different things. I wouldn't want someone's dedication not to pay off. However, I cannot make a god my main focus in life, or even a focus of great importance. I feel I best serve my purpose in other ways, just as you may best serve your purpose by believing in a god. You and I disagree, and that's fine. I won't be bitter if you turn out to be correct, nor will I try to rip any legitimacy from you. I'm not here to disrespect, and I hope you won't disrespect what I believe (or don't believe) as well.
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This guy gets it
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I like to think being agnostic means being open to all possibilities. I tend to lean towards teachings that generally promote self development because of this and try to focus less on the whose what and focus more on just being a better person.
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That makes sense
