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#feedback

Edited by Malphisto: 10/3/2015 2:41:52 AM
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INNOVATION vs. OBSOLESCENCE... (The Big One)

Since the very beginning of Destiny, player feedback from both sides of the fence has always had the same intended goal behind it. To improve and expand the experience. To stretch the realm of possibility and test the limits of human creativity. [b]FOR THIS WAS THE HOPE WE ALL WANTED TO BELIEVE IN![/b] The endless potential of what we all saw back in 2013. However, Bungie... Such has not been the case, has it? This post has been in the making for several months now, and each time I keep going back and amending it. Contemplating it. Reflecting upon my own thoughts. And now here I present to you the fruit of my labor... Currently, as has been the continued trend for this game, Destiny has followed a mentality of obsolescence: rendering previous content or features obsolete in favor of new replacements. [b]-Weapons (Year 1 Legendary / Exotic, Replaced with Year 2 Weapons) -Armor (Year 1 Legendary / Exotic, Replaced with Year 2 Armor) -Raids (Vault of Glass / Crota's End, Replaced with King's Fall) -Events (Hive Sword Bearers / Wolf Packs, Replaced with The Taken) -PvE Arena (Prison of Elders, Replaced with Court of Oryx)[/b] It is [b]NOT A QUESTION[/b] of whether or not the Year 2 replacements are better by comparison, but rather the act of manually engineering the previous content to have its value removed in order to promote continued progression that is [b]FORCED[/b] upon the community instead of allowing it to be freely chosen. Much in the same way that the paywalls imposed upon non-TTK buyers is an attempt in itself to strong arm people into paying for something just so they can continue doing the things that were previously available to them. (Even back when the last two DLCs didn't do this) Planned Obsolescence does absolutely nothing for anyone. It doesn't promote time investment. It doesn't encourage people to spend money on the product. It doesn't advocate MORE CONTENT because its essentially keeping the same amount of content that was originally there to begin with. The Taken King is thought to be an improvement, and yet its only $20 less than [i]Vanilla Destiny[/i] which gave us... [b]-The Tower (Social Hub) -Old Russia, Earth (Open World Area) -Sea of Storms, Moon (Open World Area) -Ishtar Sink, Venus (Open World Area) -Meridian Bay, Mars (Open World Area) -22 Story Missions -6 Strikes -1 Raid (Vault of Glass) -11 Crucible Maps -6 PvP Game Modes (Skirmish, Clash, Rumble, Control, Combined Arms and Salvage)[/b] Ignoring the travesty that was Dark Below and the now pointless House of Wolves DLC, both of which total the cost of the new expansion? Let us now compare what The Taken King is offering... [b]-New Subclass -The Dreadnought (Open World Area, [i]Court of Oryx[/i] replaces Public Events for this location) -8 [i]"[u]STORY[/u]"[/i] Missions -4 Strikes -1 Raid (King's Fall) -8 Crucible Maps -2 PvP Game Modes (Rift and Mayhem)[/b] Now, I won't get into another discussion about my thoughts regarding TTK. That isn't the point of this post. Pricing and all the other stuff aside. [i]You would think this is an actual injection of more content for Destiny.[/i] However, the big problem here is that with TTK, you are also [b]LOSING CONTENT[/b] as well because it no longer has any value. So after getting all that out of the way... [b]INNOVATION IS THE ANSWER.[/b] Think about it. What REALLY made anyone even the slightest bit interested in TTK to begin with? Obviously wasn't the lackluster amount of content, to be sure. No, of course not. Its the innovations that are presented with it. [b]-Ghost Scanning -Triggered Events -Quest System -New Abilities (Subclasses) -New Weapon Type (Swords) -Better Level Design (Less Horde Modes, More Action)[/b] Innovation should always be your only concern and point of focus. Everything should have relevancy. If you want to create a game that can stand the test of time and grow into a beloved franchise like what you had with Halo, it is only possible if you continue to evolve. [b]GEAR MODIFICATION:[/b] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdAWcizd1WY Concerning the matter of Year 1 Legendary and Exotic Gear being left behind. This decision not only rendered a large chunk of content worthless, it also invalidated the amount of time players invested into getting them. Destiny centers largely around grinding activities over and over to acquire more powerful loot. As such, all loot should serve a purpose and maintain a sense of value. There are plenty of ways to go about doing this. One such method is to implement a Gear Modification as another option to simply dismantling. In doing so, weapons can be broken down into actual distinctive parts. (Barrel, Muzzle, Grip, Clip, Sight, etc.) From here, you can likewise work this concept into a couple methods. "[i][u]Weapon Customization[/u][/i]"- Combining these parts together to create unique weapons personalized in both appearance, attributes and perks to suit each player's style. "[i][u]Weapon Crafting[/u][/i]"- Combining various weapons together to create new ones that can ONLY BE ACQUIRED through crafting. [b]-Fatebringer (Year 1) + Word of Crota (Year 1) = Dawn Caller (Crafted ONLY Year 2 Legendary Hand Cannon) -Dawn Caller (Year 2) + Evangeline (Year 3 Hand Cannon) = Death Penalty (Crafted ONLY Year 3 Legendary Hand Cannon) -Fatebringer (Year 1) + Remorse (Year 3 Raid Hand Cannon) = THE DEVIL YOU WANT (Crafted ONLY Year 4 Legendary Hand Cannon)[/b] Notice the natural progression without sacrificing relevancy? This same system can also be used for Armor as well. [b]UNRESTRICTED INFUSION:[/b] https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/150515526/0/0 Myself and others have made this point plenty of times and will continue to do so until we actually see something done about it. I won't get into the full argument here and instead simply refer you to this link for more details. Basically, it boils down to the fact that many folks love their old weapons and armor for various reasons and Infusion is really just a wasted opportunity as is. [b]#INFUSIONFORALL[/b] [b]ELIMINATING LIGHT LEVEL:[/b] Its really just holding the game back at this point. It obviously didn't change, your character level is now just basically your "Equip Level" while Light itself still works the exact same way of determining your overall offense and defense during combat. The whole thing needs to be scraped and the Level System entirely re-evaluated. And it goes without saying that requiring players to purchase DLC in order to keep raising their level is going to drive more people away from the game, not actually encourage them to stick around. I figured that was just common sense, really. [b]NEW WEAPONS:[/b] The notion of rendering older weapons obsolete to "make room" for new ones is really just an old hat and flawed notion that some developers just can't seem to wrap their minds around. In an interview, DeeJ makes mention that there would be a "Year 2 equivalent for Fatebringer" which means you're knowingly getting rid of older weapons JUST to make new replacements. Again, this is a textbook case of planned obsolescence. Instead of making how many different versions to replace a single weapon, wouldn't it make more sense if you just KEEP that original weapon and instead focus on designing NEW TYPES of weapons? You've already done it twice now with Sidearms and Swords. Not only does this expand player variety but also opens up the door to endless possibilities. [b]-SMG -GNL (Grenade Launcher) -Laser Cannon (Similar to the Spartan Laser from Halo) -Energy Bow (Longbows that release Charged Arrows) -Tower Shield (Similar to the Cabal Shields) -MORE MELEE WEAPONS... (Axes, Claws, Whips, etc. Each of these weapons have their own characteristics and uses)[/b] Anyways, I could easily go on and on with all manner of ideas. You are only limited by your own imagination. New PvP Game Modes. CLAN ONLY ACTIVITIES AND CONTENT. Overhauling Year 1 Content. Adding NEW VERSIONS of previous Endgame Content with new rewards. SPACE/AERIAL COMBAT. Sparrow Racing. Player Trading. Player Housing. OPENING UP THE CITY FOR EXPLORATION. More Social Features. New Mechanics. (Zero Gravity Environments for "[i]Unreal Tournament[/i]" style fighting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhTtPYo1tww ) [b]INNOVATION BEATS OBSOLESCENCE ALWAYS. PERIOD.[/b]

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  • Edited by Spoooo0000ky: 9/29/2015 2:44:14 AM
    You forgot one thing: [i]beards[/i]. I may not agree with [i]all[/i] of your points, but your suggestions for innovative additions to the game are [b]top shelf.[/b] Bump.

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    • You spoke with voice of many. I seriously hope bungie takes this thread into account. Destiny is a great game and, as you pointed out, still has a huge potential to get even better. Thank you.

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      • Great post... I am annoyed that they pretty much took away All of the gear I spent a year grinding for. Sure I can still use old crap in the crucible (outside of iron banner) but they made all of it irrelevant. I thought I paid for all shit I had to grind for in year one but I guess I should have expected this. I love aspects of this new Dlc but this business practice that is being shoved down our throats is turning me away. It feels like quality but is surely lacking for the price on top of what they made obsolete for everyone.

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      • You are someone i could debate ideas with. The problem with this is the concept of money which by my own opinion is the root cause of why destiny is in the state that it is in.the problem is activision, their objective is to make as much money as possible with the lowest amount of effort put in. Thats their only concern. Bungie on the other hand want to produce a quality product, they could -blam!-ing [b]TASTE[/b] the glory that comes with making a revolutionary game. Bethesda Studios is one example. Skyrim makes gamers dicks go hard, its why i purchased ESO "they made major mistakes with that at the start but its been given a facelift and a half" If destiny is to become the game it truly is, Activision and Bungie NEED to be separated. Profit and sustainability dont go well together Judging by the language you use, we both know that.

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        • I've said it before HoW ( https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/92788134/0/0/1) And I'll say it again, Destiny really should have been a horizontal progression FPSWannabeMMO. You take Guild Wars 2 settings and way to do things, you strap it on Destiny, and Voilà! An almost perfect game where the grind doesn't really matter anymore. Low amount of content, high amount of grind are perfect for that genre and it keeps the game rolling for years, while not invalidating your grind each 3 months because the rules changes with each new expansion. More, not less , please!

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          • I'm all for even further changes as long as it does not involve continuously bringing up old weapons for years on end. Obviously if new items on par with Fatebringer, etc, were introduced then people would be compelled to variety, but I think that vanilla stuff was just all too overpowered and made too many activities easy mode. I'd prefer it to continue the way the item system is working now, but that being said, we do need MORE variety. I still don't feel like I have all that many choices for how I want my character to look, etc.

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          • It isnt that weapons and gear become useless. This happens all the time in rpgs. Its the way Destiny obsoletes things. The game loses its sense of natural progression at level 20. These weapons we work for and upgrade and become attached to become useless with little warning. If the obsolescence felt natural it wouldnt be an issue... Just like in most rpgs.

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            • Edited by Skarpkant: 9/29/2015 6:37:56 AM
              Actually when it comes to "storymission", yes, there was 8 in the Oryx-story line, but then you have the Vanguard ones, Eris Morns, Variks and Petras side-quests, so in general I think you can add up some more quests than just 8 for the new expansion. But then again, vanilla Destiny had 4 planets to lay out the founding quests on so with just one more patrolarea I think they did ok with this. Edit1: And I still havent done all the quests yet and still have stuff to discover/get. Edit2: The raid is i m o the better of the three with VoG in 2nd place. More focus on teamplay and no one can just hang back and be carried.

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              • Less horde modes?!...... Heh as if! Fighting 5 bajillion taken and a boss at the same time...

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                • BUMP! Very well put, and this is just a portion of the big picture we all want to see in the future. If only these points and more were considered before the development of year 2 content. There is so much that can be revamped/added to this game.. This game is no longer headed in the right direction. It is a dying light. I'm really hoping Bungie can take in all these great ideas and concepts to bring the game back to the level of excitement and greatness it had last year. Re-ignite that flame, Bungie!

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                • Bump.

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                • Bump. Very well put. It's like you reached into my brain, and put to words what I never could!

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                • bump, you and lost sols are my favvy

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                • I wonder how much Bdobbinsftw would charge to come to Bnet and post. You think hed be affordable, Mal?

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                  • Bump to everything!

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                  • Very nice!

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                  • Bungie has the potential to expand this game by adding tried and true mechanics. Space battles, sparrow racing, private matches and guardian housing can take this game into places that few have gone before. I'd like to imagine roaming around the city, finding a house I like, and make it my digital home to hang my trophies and gather my fire team (if I'm hosting). Not a bad place to put micro transactions to offset expansion prices. Sparrow racing sells itself, add a Mario Kart twist and use weapons; or a pure test of skill without said weapons. Same goes for space combat, add PvE challenges and PvP maps. I would also like to see Y1 content brought into Y2. $60 for vanilla, TDB, HoW, and TTK sounds good; until you realize that most of the content is no longer relevant. What's the point of VoG, CE, and PoE if their rewards are subpar? In a game about acquiring the best gear, old content is just padding content. This game can be a lot more than the grind fest that resets progress. If Y1 content is relevant in going forward, Destiny could have an [i]overwhelming[/i] amount of content, and that's not a bad thing for a game with a long term plan.

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                    • Bump this forever.

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                      • Good to see you have gone back to actual feedback instead of the "Death with Bungie!" persona. Definitely like this Malphisto better. Bump.

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                        • Edited by LordZoltan: 9/28/2015 11:53:18 PM
                          While I agree with what you're saying, there is one area that needs to be addessed. The taken king doesn't just have 8 story missions. It has 105 (really 85) quests. Let that sink in for just a moment. That's more content than vanilla, TDB, and HoW combined. These are just the facts. That's an awful lot of content for 40 dollars. It is important to have all the facts, isn't it? And yes, I know that 9 of those quests listed are for previously released content. Which leaves a mere 96 (really 76) quests. Edit: It's actually only 85. Leaving 76 new quests.

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                          • There's no reason for them to make their own work irrelevant. No reason. I'm not going to fund this beta test. I don't like that this game changed the way everything worked, it's annoying as hell and they should have worked this shit out before releasing it to the public. Them and Activision should be ashamed of themselves for being greedy bastards. Don't know why bungie signed with them in the first place.

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                            • Definite BUMP!!!

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                            • Get your tinfoil hats people

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                            • 2
                              Bump. What game are you describing? I'd buy that game in a heartbeat!

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                              • Edited by NovelPegasus072: 9/28/2015 4:28:41 PM
                                The game should keep expanding and diversifying while keep old content meaningful or providing and outlet to make old content useful for current game aka introduce new content into old content and make old content be useful for current present time This makes past grinding rewarding still and gives a huge variety to new players as well as old 1. Etheric light Lets players choose wether or not they want to ascend or infuse old gear to new standards 2. Old missions and raids Introduce new level modifiers for current max lvls and for this lvls provide new rewards relevant to new content In this case VOG LVL40 with vog styled sword,sidearm,ghost(vex skin)with perhaps some new armor CROTA LVL 40 Crota styled sword,sidearm,ghost(black with the 3 green eyes) with perhaps some new armor Basically the same for HOW 3. Also don't take away the wolves and blades maybe make them happen a little less but keep them in game and present more of them For instance maybe have roaming cabal troops Or Radom hive drop ships Just some quick ideas that would definitely make me pick up new dlc Making all my year 1 content obsolete and irrelevant has made me decide I don't want to continue if everything I get will be made obsolete later Yes people should try out the new stuff but let that be the players choice and not have the choice forced upon them Guardian out pass on that revive to the next one ghost

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                                • Great post!

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