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#feedback

Edited by Malphisto: 10/3/2015 2:41:52 AM
229

INNOVATION vs. OBSOLESCENCE... (The Big One)

Since the very beginning of Destiny, player feedback from both sides of the fence has always had the same intended goal behind it. To improve and expand the experience. To stretch the realm of possibility and test the limits of human creativity. [b]FOR THIS WAS THE HOPE WE ALL WANTED TO BELIEVE IN![/b] The endless potential of what we all saw back in 2013. However, Bungie... Such has not been the case, has it? This post has been in the making for several months now, and each time I keep going back and amending it. Contemplating it. Reflecting upon my own thoughts. And now here I present to you the fruit of my labor... Currently, as has been the continued trend for this game, Destiny has followed a mentality of obsolescence: rendering previous content or features obsolete in favor of new replacements. [b]-Weapons (Year 1 Legendary / Exotic, Replaced with Year 2 Weapons) -Armor (Year 1 Legendary / Exotic, Replaced with Year 2 Armor) -Raids (Vault of Glass / Crota's End, Replaced with King's Fall) -Events (Hive Sword Bearers / Wolf Packs, Replaced with The Taken) -PvE Arena (Prison of Elders, Replaced with Court of Oryx)[/b] It is [b]NOT A QUESTION[/b] of whether or not the Year 2 replacements are better by comparison, but rather the act of manually engineering the previous content to have its value removed in order to promote continued progression that is [b]FORCED[/b] upon the community instead of allowing it to be freely chosen. Much in the same way that the paywalls imposed upon non-TTK buyers is an attempt in itself to strong arm people into paying for something just so they can continue doing the things that were previously available to them. (Even back when the last two DLCs didn't do this) Planned Obsolescence does absolutely nothing for anyone. It doesn't promote time investment. It doesn't encourage people to spend money on the product. It doesn't advocate MORE CONTENT because its essentially keeping the same amount of content that was originally there to begin with. The Taken King is thought to be an improvement, and yet its only $20 less than [i]Vanilla Destiny[/i] which gave us... [b]-The Tower (Social Hub) -Old Russia, Earth (Open World Area) -Sea of Storms, Moon (Open World Area) -Ishtar Sink, Venus (Open World Area) -Meridian Bay, Mars (Open World Area) -22 Story Missions -6 Strikes -1 Raid (Vault of Glass) -11 Crucible Maps -6 PvP Game Modes (Skirmish, Clash, Rumble, Control, Combined Arms and Salvage)[/b] Ignoring the travesty that was Dark Below and the now pointless House of Wolves DLC, both of which total the cost of the new expansion? Let us now compare what The Taken King is offering... [b]-New Subclass -The Dreadnought (Open World Area, [i]Court of Oryx[/i] replaces Public Events for this location) -8 [i]"[u]STORY[/u]"[/i] Missions -4 Strikes -1 Raid (King's Fall) -8 Crucible Maps -2 PvP Game Modes (Rift and Mayhem)[/b] Now, I won't get into another discussion about my thoughts regarding TTK. That isn't the point of this post. Pricing and all the other stuff aside. [i]You would think this is an actual injection of more content for Destiny.[/i] However, the big problem here is that with TTK, you are also [b]LOSING CONTENT[/b] as well because it no longer has any value. So after getting all that out of the way... [b]INNOVATION IS THE ANSWER.[/b] Think about it. What REALLY made anyone even the slightest bit interested in TTK to begin with? Obviously wasn't the lackluster amount of content, to be sure. No, of course not. Its the innovations that are presented with it. [b]-Ghost Scanning -Triggered Events -Quest System -New Abilities (Subclasses) -New Weapon Type (Swords) -Better Level Design (Less Horde Modes, More Action)[/b] Innovation should always be your only concern and point of focus. Everything should have relevancy. If you want to create a game that can stand the test of time and grow into a beloved franchise like what you had with Halo, it is only possible if you continue to evolve. [b]GEAR MODIFICATION:[/b] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdAWcizd1WY Concerning the matter of Year 1 Legendary and Exotic Gear being left behind. This decision not only rendered a large chunk of content worthless, it also invalidated the amount of time players invested into getting them. Destiny centers largely around grinding activities over and over to acquire more powerful loot. As such, all loot should serve a purpose and maintain a sense of value. There are plenty of ways to go about doing this. One such method is to implement a Gear Modification as another option to simply dismantling. In doing so, weapons can be broken down into actual distinctive parts. (Barrel, Muzzle, Grip, Clip, Sight, etc.) From here, you can likewise work this concept into a couple methods. "[i][u]Weapon Customization[/u][/i]"- Combining these parts together to create unique weapons personalized in both appearance, attributes and perks to suit each player's style. "[i][u]Weapon Crafting[/u][/i]"- Combining various weapons together to create new ones that can ONLY BE ACQUIRED through crafting. [b]-Fatebringer (Year 1) + Word of Crota (Year 1) = Dawn Caller (Crafted ONLY Year 2 Legendary Hand Cannon) -Dawn Caller (Year 2) + Evangeline (Year 3 Hand Cannon) = Death Penalty (Crafted ONLY Year 3 Legendary Hand Cannon) -Fatebringer (Year 1) + Remorse (Year 3 Raid Hand Cannon) = THE DEVIL YOU WANT (Crafted ONLY Year 4 Legendary Hand Cannon)[/b] Notice the natural progression without sacrificing relevancy? This same system can also be used for Armor as well. [b]UNRESTRICTED INFUSION:[/b] https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/150515526/0/0 Myself and others have made this point plenty of times and will continue to do so until we actually see something done about it. I won't get into the full argument here and instead simply refer you to this link for more details. Basically, it boils down to the fact that many folks love their old weapons and armor for various reasons and Infusion is really just a wasted opportunity as is. [b]#INFUSIONFORALL[/b] [b]ELIMINATING LIGHT LEVEL:[/b] Its really just holding the game back at this point. It obviously didn't change, your character level is now just basically your "Equip Level" while Light itself still works the exact same way of determining your overall offense and defense during combat. The whole thing needs to be scraped and the Level System entirely re-evaluated. And it goes without saying that requiring players to purchase DLC in order to keep raising their level is going to drive more people away from the game, not actually encourage them to stick around. I figured that was just common sense, really. [b]NEW WEAPONS:[/b] The notion of rendering older weapons obsolete to "make room" for new ones is really just an old hat and flawed notion that some developers just can't seem to wrap their minds around. In an interview, DeeJ makes mention that there would be a "Year 2 equivalent for Fatebringer" which means you're knowingly getting rid of older weapons JUST to make new replacements. Again, this is a textbook case of planned obsolescence. Instead of making how many different versions to replace a single weapon, wouldn't it make more sense if you just KEEP that original weapon and instead focus on designing NEW TYPES of weapons? You've already done it twice now with Sidearms and Swords. Not only does this expand player variety but also opens up the door to endless possibilities. [b]-SMG -GNL (Grenade Launcher) -Laser Cannon (Similar to the Spartan Laser from Halo) -Energy Bow (Longbows that release Charged Arrows) -Tower Shield (Similar to the Cabal Shields) -MORE MELEE WEAPONS... (Axes, Claws, Whips, etc. Each of these weapons have their own characteristics and uses)[/b] Anyways, I could easily go on and on with all manner of ideas. You are only limited by your own imagination. New PvP Game Modes. CLAN ONLY ACTIVITIES AND CONTENT. Overhauling Year 1 Content. Adding NEW VERSIONS of previous Endgame Content with new rewards. SPACE/AERIAL COMBAT. Sparrow Racing. Player Trading. Player Housing. OPENING UP THE CITY FOR EXPLORATION. More Social Features. New Mechanics. (Zero Gravity Environments for "[i]Unreal Tournament[/i]" style fighting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhTtPYo1tww ) [b]INNOVATION BEATS OBSOLESCENCE ALWAYS. PERIOD.[/b]

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  • Forced obsolescence. If you aren't good enough to innovate, you force your older products into obsolescence and attempt to make people change to the new. Short term, that works on a popular product. Long term, people get sick of it and move on.

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  • I agree that weapon crafting would add a lot to destiny just by allowing players to play older content while working towards current rewards. Though having infusion on old gear kinda defeats the purpose of weapon crafting. As only people with multiples, or nothing else to do, will try to get older gear just to make new gear when they could just bump up that old gear. Besides the rework for weapons and introducing new weapon manufactures the gear in this game still isn't enough to remove light levels and have people only worry about perks. Also I see stopping players that don't buy from coattailing on those that do as a good thing, but that's my personal opinion. The only thing that would be nice in the game is to have more for clans other than a second name on your tag. Also custom PvP would be nice.

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  • All valid points. Allot can be taken from this post. Hope it doesn't fall on def ears.

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    • Edited by Arclight545: 9/28/2015 6:22:08 AM
      Damn Mal, Shots Fired!! https://youtu.be/fAxTsLP9_oc Target after target! Thermonuclear Bump!!!

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      • Bump. Perfect post. I thought TTK would hold me over until fallout but it can't even keep me entertained as it is... The limited repetitive strike playlist and the PvP based missions are really killing me..

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        • One more thing about the old DLCs, If they become "obsolete" (because Bungie remove some contents). it mean they scam for the 4th times all Destiny players who purchase the legendary version for 60$ or 70 euro. Effectively all this people get the base game ,TTK and 2 dead DLCs for a very hight price.

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          • Edited by Howie: 9/28/2015 4:49:47 PM
            Good post - I agree with most of it, particularly the planned obsolescence part. Why take away content? Surely having enough that players get to pick and choose exactly what they want to do is the way forward. Case In point - one of my friends started playing with TTK. He's never seen VoG, Crota, PoE, and unless things change he never will. I might take him into these places one day for a look around, but everything that made them rewarding has been removed. He's no real incentive and I certainly don't. He'll grind away at TTK like the rest of us and eventually it will start to grate - all the while the majority of Destiny's end game content is sitting there being unplayed.

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            • \('_')/ THIS x100

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            • Bump, I agree completely, they do a great job of pushing customers away rather than providing REAL incentives for us to stay around and buy more. Their loss I guess.

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              • To the top with this!

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                • Edited by Dethsoul: 9/28/2015 6:37:14 AM
                  Bump. I've sworn off of Bungie and Activision for the way they've gone about their business practices and overall treatment of the playerbase. I really hope this sh*t doesn't happen again with another AAA title. Even more annoying are the blindly loyal followers of Bungievision.

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                  • Bump bump bumpity bump. However, there is a gaping home in your logic... Planned obsolescence = More short term profit Innovation = More long term profit (maybe) Which one has Bungievision already chosen? [spoiler] They really want that Christmas bonus XD[/spoiler]

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                    • Bump +100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 Every point brought up here is the reason why I understand now that bungie and activision are [b][i]NOT WORTH MY MONEY ANYMORE[/i][/b] Fool me once, shame on you...fool me twice... Too many better games coming out to even consider giving money to the ass hats at bungie and activision. Thank you Malphisto!

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                      • Good stuff man, I really wish Bungie would actually listen to the players; great things like this would happen.

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                        • The sad thing is... I really love the pvp in Destiny, or what it could be. It's a helluva lot of fun, only scarred by the poor balance and lack of dedicated servers and thus the really poor net coding. Plus, the sheer amount of head games they are playing with people to keep them hooked and playing through the abysmal lack of content.

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                          • Too true. Unfortunately now we must await a different game to take the place where this one might have stood. They already sold their soul. However grand your ideas may be, they will never be implemented as fun is always going to be trumped by addictive psycholanalyzed behavior with Activision involved. Sad. Very sad indeed :(

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                            • Bump. All. Day. Bump.

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                              • Love you so much right now, BUMP.

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                                • This is what everyone's been trying to say and I mean %100 of the community! Read bungie please read this! BUMP!!

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                                  • Im not going to bother with a big reply, im just going to BUMP and remind people there are lots of better games out there now. Unless you are broke there is no reason to carry on playing this let down of a game. Basically what everyone got who bought the taken king legendary edition was the game we all should have got on year one release.

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                                    • Bump. Good post. Planned obsolescence is cheap. Innovation requires talent and money (usually). I think we all know which way Bungie will lean on this choice.

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                                      • Ive put off replying to this beauty until i felt i could respond properly. And ive come to the conclusion that i dont even need to. Youve nailed the lack of innovation on Bungies part. The only innovation in this game is the business model, as a brainwashing/money extractor, this game is ...........flawless. Excellent read, Mal. Big thumbs up!

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                                        • Bump #infusionforall

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                                          • with posts like this, I really have hope that Destiny could become the game we always wanted it to be.

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                                            • BUMP Another great post.

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                                              • ugh light lvl.. u are soo correct. destiny's getting rly boring already. the lack of innovation is prominent in pve and pvp.

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