[quote]Honestly got tired of the complaint threads so I decided to take 2 friends into rumble to test. I first tested the defense both with max armor and with the extra armor you can get with a certain chest piece when using a solar based subclass. results: I had 2 snipers used. stillpeircer and black spindle. still has impact of 31 which covers 1000 yard stare and LDR. black spindle has 37 which covers black hammer and eferdeets spear. the 004 sniper was not used but has an impact of 34. snipers were used at point blank so no damage drop off was present. With max armor the 31 impact snipers leave me with a tiny sliver of health. which means the 34 impact sniper and 37 impact snipers will one shot me. With additional armor the 37 sniper one shot me. which means 3 snipers can currently one shot headshot the sunbreaker when they have the most armor possible. the 34 might be able to do it. and any sniper with a damage proc including the 31 snipers will be able to one shot. Next I tested golden gun. The result was the same both times. Point blank a golden gun will not one shot the sunbreaker. but they both leave you with a sliver of health. so if the sunbreaker has literally taken any damage at all and gets hit by golden gun they will die. It's important to note that you have to fully spec into armor in order to live from golden gun. If you don't take max armor golden gun will one shot you. Lastly I tested the damage of the hammer on direct impacts. To confirm my idea that it has the same damage model of arc blade swipes. When running max armor on blade dancer with the extra armor you take 2 hammers to kill. you're left with half of your red health bar. then I tested it against a person with max armor on storm trance but no extra armor and got the same result. to me this means it's got the same damage of the arc blade melee. If hammer of sol does any extra damage at all its so small that it's not going to matter in 90% of situations. Conclusion: the sunbreaker mid super naturally has a slight armor advantage. and it's honestly so slight it doesn't matter in my opinion. you have potentially 4 snipers with out any special perk roll that can one shot head shot. and if you are using golden gun all you have to do is hit them with anything like a nade or knife and then golden gun and they are dead. I understand people don't like that the sunbreaker can even survive it at all. However they are the tank class and all titan sub classes can tank a golden gun. so it's consistent. and hammer of sol has average damage. needing 2 hammers to kill a majority of people mid super. of course if the target has low armor it's a one hit. But everyone is always telling me max armor is the way to go in crucible. so if you aren't running it you willingly accept the concequences. end of story. I didn't test all sub classes on damage with the hammer because the 2 I did test with different situations yielded the same results. Though if someone proves me wrong with footage and explains the situation i'll retract my statement. I also didn't test sword swings or rockets. Simply because anyone mid super (bar golden gun and radiance with no radiant skin) can tank 2 sword swings and if any of the subclasses (bar the same 2) spec for max armor can survive a rocket. simply put it's not a new thing. armor always protected you from rockets and now from 2 burst deaths. and the swords follow the same damage model as arc blade does. Hopefully this thread gets around and people stop complaining about how tanky they are or how stupid strong hammer damage is. EDIT: I completely forgot to mention the shotgun testing done. I managed to survive a conspiracy D headshot at point blank when I had the max armor+ the additional armor from the chest piece. with out the additional armor from the chest piece I die. So High impact shotguns will one shot sunbreakers if they are headshots 90% of the time.[/quote]

So please read this thread with actual numbers pulled by DTR statistics not someone testing... Enjoy: [quote]Not my post, but you people need facts Here are some numbers for you all courtesy of DTR's community statistics I also didn't realize this forum suddenly became somewhere that requires perfect statistical presentation. Super kills (PVP) Hunter Nightstalker 54,549,041 (4.90%) Titan Sunbreaker 30,933,744 (2.78%) Warlock Stormcaller 28,664,865 (2.58%) Grenade kills (PVP) Hunter Nightstalker 31,135,311 (4.11%) Warlock Stormcaller 26,611,954 (3.51%) Titan Sunbreaker 16,019,668 (2.11%) Melee kills (PVP) Warlock Stormcaller 38,775,697 (3.16%) Hunter Nightstalker 32,853,317 (2.68%) Titan Sunbreaker 29,285,716 (2.39%) Sooooooo. You were saying how sunbreakers get sooooooooo many kills with their overpowered hammers yet they still have less super kill then the hunter SUPPORT class. Edit 1. Class breakdown 33.5% warlock with 3% being stormcaller 32.3% titan with 3% being sunbreaker 34.2% hunter with 4% being nightstalker These are updated every 15 minutes by destiny tracker. I didn't collect these. The low percentage is because the subclass percentage is based upon what percentage of tracked games they have been in. Edit 2: actual numbers for classes for you Warlock 1,854,319 Titan 1,786,529 Hunter 1,890,494 source: http://destinytracker.com/destiny/population Edit 3: here are the stats for all subclasses. These have been updated so the numbers should be different from the ones above Super kills (PVP) Hunter Bladedancer 201,044,918 (18.06%) Hunter Gunslinger 199,808,670 (17.95%) Titan Striker 186,291,620 (16.73%) Warlock Sunsinger 152,393,823 (13.69%) Warlock Voidwalker 131,789,812 (11.84%) Titan Defender 124,945,236 (11.22%) Hunter Nightstalker 55,925,202 (5.02%) Titan Sunbreaker 31,783,917 (2.85%) Warlock Stormcaller 29,448,846 (2.64%) Grenades: Warlock Sunsinger 174,401,439 (22.98%) Hunter Bladedancer 121,434,967 (16.00%) Hunter Gunslinger 114,520,912 (15.09%) Warlock Voidwalker 108,105,902 (14.24%) Titan Striker 94,212,758 (12.41%) Titan Defender 70,645,856 (9.31%) Hunter Nightstalker 31,920,719 (4.21%) Warlock Stormcaller 27,326,515 (3.60%) Titan Sunbreaker 16,443,142 (2.17%) Melee: Warlock Sunsinger 284,839,168 (23.19%) Titan Striker 203,237,949 (16.55%) Warlock Voidwalker 177,393,092 (14.44%) Hunter Bladedancer 170,332,624 (13.87%) Titan Defender 153,350,640 (12.49%) Hunter Gunslinger 135,263,513 (11.01%) Warlock Stormcaller 39,855,529 (3.25%) Hunter Nightstalker 33,721,785 (2.75%) Titan Sunbreaker 30,104,721 (2.45%) Edit: [quote]Okay, it seems there's way to many people sticking to the argument, There are more Hunters than Warlocks/Titans therefore they're are going to have more kills. If you agree, then this is for you. These stats were derived from a sizable portion of the population using the most recent statistic. 5.54 million games played as a specific subclass total. Hunter 1,894,406 Warlock 1,858,093 Titan 1,790,357 4% of Titans' and Warlocks' tracked games were played as Sunbreakers and Stormcallers. 5% of the Hunters' tracked games were played as Nightstalkers. Those of you with even a little bit of background in math already start to see a problem here ;) We can conclude that: 92524 games were played as a Nightstalker 75619 games were played as a Stormcaller 71461 games were played as a Sunbreaker And now to put everything on an equal playing field. Super Kills Avg per: Nightstalker - 619 Sunbreaker - 474 Stormcaller - 419 Melee Kills Avg per: Stormcaller - 566 Sunbreaker - 448 Nightstalker - 375 Grenade Kill Avg per: Stormcaller - 387 Nightstalker - 354 Sunbreaker - 245 Total Kills Avg per: Stormcaller - 1372 Nightstalker - 1348 Sunbreaker - 1167 Hmm, would you look a that. Seems like it wouldn't matter if there was an equal amount of Hunters, Warlocks and Titans. Hunters and Warlocks would be neck and neck yet Titans would still come in dead last. I wonder how such an OP subclass ends up with the least amount of kill[/quote]

Lmao

just shot 1 with golden gun, he survived, he hit me with 1 hammer, I died. needs to be rebalanced.

Titans can't use Sunbreakers, what are you talking about? [spoiler]( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)[/spoiler]

For the last time it's not an unlimited number of hammers for 20 seconds. It's like 20 seconds if you sit and do nothing, otherwise it's probably 7 or so if you're lobbing non stop.