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10/6/2015 5:20:16 PM
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I somehow missed Fundament being a gas giant. Was having trouble wrapping my head around a normal planet with 50+ massive moons, but a gas giant makes much more sense. But why on Earth would you agree with the Hive's philosophy? Their "perfect" universe is empty and lifeless. You're a psychopath if you think universal omnicide could possibly be a good thing.
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  • The universe is slowly dying, and the only way to make sure it survives is to make it take a deathless and perfect final shape. "Far better to have a savage universe with a happy end than a happy universe with no hope," as Oryx said in the last verse of his Books of Sorrow. It does not have to be lifeless, provided that the life that remains is so widespread and strong enough that neither can wipe out each other.

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  • That's not how entropy works.

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  • Yeah, but I don't think how the universe actually works in real life matters much in a world with space magic.

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  • Edited by Demagogue: 10/7/2015 12:49:07 AM
    But it does. You can't have fiction without reality. And anyway, what evidence is there that the Sword Logic is a fundamental law of the Destiny universe? If it only functions within throne worlds is that not proof of the opposite?

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  • Edited by That Halo Dude: 10/6/2015 8:03:44 PM
    But therein lies the problem. The only way the universe can be "deathless" is if there's literally nothing left to die. Oryx's way of justifying this is that he and his Hive are already "dead." But Oryx's philosophy has two other major weak spots: First and foremost, Oryx is a brazen hypocrite. He denounces the Traveler as coddling "weak" races and giving them power they don't "deserve." Oryx forgets where he came from. Those frail, short-lived krill on the Fundament should have gone extinct when the God-Wave swamped their continents; Aurash, her sisters, and their people would be dead if nature had been allowed to take its course. Instead they were given power by the Worm; power that, according to Sword Logic, they didn't deserve because of how weak their species was to begin with. The Hive praise the Worm and curse the Traveler in the same breath, despite the fact that the Traveler does for other races the [i]exact same thing[/i] the Worms did for them. The Worms and the Traveler both bestow great power to species that would otherwise never have it; the only difference is that the Traveler does it free-of-charge and the Worms only do it for their own benefit. The Hive's entire crusade is based in hypocrisy. Second, when we get right down to it, Oryx is driven by little more than jealousy. He resents that the Traveler chose the Ammonite over his own race. He tracks down civilizations the Traveler visited and destroys them out of spite. But I think it goes beyond just the Traveler; Oryx hates [i]any[/i] race that's "luckier" than his. Races that - even without the Traveler - lived much longer than his, and did so on peaceful, stable worlds. True, Oryx is intellectual and introspective. But he's also incredibly [i]petty.[/i] In my opinion, Oryx's personal motivations can be summed up as "If we couldn't have the Traveler, no one can."

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  • So essentially a USA/Russia Coldwar scenario. Both powers so powerful that they have mutually assured complete annihilation. Yeah that sounds like a solid platform for the entire universe to go by. I'm with That Halo Dude, you might be a psychopath if you subscribe to this logic.

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  • Edited by Astral Centipede: 10/6/2015 7:48:23 PM
    Actually no, the scenario I'm talking about is one where no species is capable of destroying the other because thy're just so widespread, NOT mutually assured destruction scenario.Some people (like myself) are capable of separating our real beliefs from beliefs regarding fiction lore which they happen to find simply more fun and interesting. Sheesh, relax.

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  • I shouldn't have to point out how big the universe is but somewhere out there is some unimaginative potential, that once seized, can/will make a species stronger and faster. Maybe it's alien tech, maybe it's something natural. Someday it's inevitable. Once superiority is fully established and countless legions are organized, they will simply hunt out of boredom. The other species will be wiped out because a truce/mutual agreement will not allow both to exist. If both sides find similar tech and are both organized, the dying that remain will just wither out of existence, via mutual destruction. Anyway, point is, it's all about perspective. Is the Traveler evil? Ask an Acolyte. Of course all these alien freaks are the true evil ones, from the human perspective, which is how we relate to it. But it is kinda depressing.

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