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10/15/2015 8:32:04 AM
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This is funny.
Like, I'm laughing at you pretty hard right now, and here's why!
Gun violence, specifically school shootings, happens in and around the places with the strictest gun control, places like Connecticut in the U.S. Why? Because when guns are as hard to get a hold of legally, it's harder for the average citizen to protect themselves or their family. Owning a gun isn't about strength, it's not about being a coward or not. It's about protection, the ability to hopefully keep it under lock and key, away from children, but always having it and not needing it. Average response time for authorities to respond to an emergency call on the U.S.? 6 minutes, that number increases in rural or urban areas.
Tell me, what would you rather have happen? Watch as your family dies to intruders, or protect them in one way or another?
In strict gun control areas, citizens are less likely to be able to defend themselves, and outlawing firearms, or making them harder and harder to aquire means the gun violence actually goes up, not down. Do you think that firearms used in most crimes are legally owned? Do you think that someone with a history of violent crime is carrying a legally own weapon? In certain cases, yes, but not the majority, that's for damn sure.
Your argument is weak.
English
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Edited by Unforgiven: 10/15/2015 7:23:42 PMIt's not criminals that are doing the shootings, it's our own kids who have easy access to guns. Criminals in this country have aren't the ones doing it. They much rather kill one person at a time which has been happening since dawn of time. But school shootings are a thing created by easy access to guns here in America now. What intruders are you talking about. This isn't Wild West, get over yourself. Just install alarms and keep your door locked. If you keep a gun and are in a bad situation 9/10 times you won't even be able to use it. Are you keeping a loaded gun next to your bed? Give me a break.
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You're kidding, right? Home invasion protection systems aren't cheap, and normally can't afforded on the salaries that most people are making. Basically, what you're saying, is if you're family is in danger, you shouldn't be able to protect yourself with anything but your fists because a gun if for cowards. Okay, so you're calling criminals cowards, but what would you do if your house was broken into at night with a wife/husband and kids at home? You're telling me you'd be able to stop the "coward(s)" from hurting them?
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There is no spree of home invasions that's plaguing the country. There are no boogy men that are entering the home with family obviously still there. Criminals aren't that stupid. They much rather do crimes when people aren't home since killing a man put you on death row in the same states that allow you easy access to guns. Enough is enough. You don't need guns.
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You have a good point, but that doesn't eliminate the possibility of it happening. Just because all criminals aren't that dumb doesn't mean they're all that smart. What about rapists, murders, kidnappers? What about muggers? I'm sorry, but I'd rather have a gun and not need it than not have a gun and need it.
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You have just as much possibility of killing your own family member or a neighbor as killing a criminal entering your home. You eliminate the gun and you eliminate the risk of them doing harm. Simple as that.
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But how do you remove guns obtained illegally? How do you combat criminals with guns? You can't keep tabs on criminals with closed cases. You can't check their residences without cause, and cause calls for proper evidence, which can't be obtained without a warrant, and a warrant can't be called into place, again, without proper cause. What you're saying is to eliminate guns from innocent people, putting them at risk. Do you really think a criminal is going to pay attention to a sign that says "firearms prohibited?" Did it work for drugs? You're logic is flawed. The places that have the highest gun crime are the places with the strictest gun laws. There's an obvious, undeniable connection, here. So please, explain how removing guns from the general populous is a good idea.
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Edited by Unforgiven: 10/16/2015 12:30:57 AMYou don't need to concern yourself with guns obtained illegally. Let FBI and Law Enforcement handle it. They have done a decent job so far. Have had many seizures of guns. You have a higher chance of being killed in a car crash or getting a heart attack than being killed by a gun. And most of the guns doing the crimes were obtained legally anyways. Just because its so easy to get them. You know how easy it is to buy a gun? http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/19/news/guns-background-checks/ Here is an article from CNN. You basically have to fill out a form and you are good to go. Then they run a background check and you get approved. only 1% of all forms are denied. But gun buyers don't have to go through a background check when they make a purchase at a gun show. You can check a website for gun shows in your area. Honestly I feel like i shouldn't post this on forums, because someone will read it and see just how easy it is.
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Yes, that's why it would take a mass law enforcement raid 10 years to remove all illegally owned guns in AMERICA ALONE. You think America has the leanest gun control laws? How about the middle east, where $10 USD gets you an AK-47 with three magazines and a box of ammunition? How about the hundreds of black market arms dealers who obtain and sell illegal weapons? How about arms dealers that are international? Another thing; how are you going to state that there's more of a chance of you dying in a car crash than to a gun crime, while your original argument was "Why do you think there's so many school shootings?" I'm sorry, but that's seems an awful lot like gun violence to me, so either you're a troll, or you don't even know what to believe.
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Edited by Unforgiven: 10/16/2015 1:30:39 AMYes there is more chance to die in a car crash. But gun crime is huge in this country. As far as chances go. They are still fairly bad. I am not speaking about what is happening in Middle East. Or in Africa for example where warlords kill thousands and make young children kill with automatic rifles. Hell they have worse problems than we do. But take England for example. They have very low gun crime. And why do you think that is? [quote] Gun Violence - Odds of dying: 1 in 300 America is the gun violence capital of the world. According to FBI crime statistics, there were 9,146 murders by firearm in 2009. Like death by accidental gun discharge, death rates for assault by firearm in the U.S. are also disproportionate to similar countries. It has the highest rate of firearm deaths among 25 high-income nations and more disturbingly, the overall firearm-related death rate among U.S. children under age 15 is 12 times higher than the death rates of these 25 high-income nations combined.[/quote]
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I want you to read that, and tell me how broken those statistics are. When compares to the gun crime of the world, not just the 25 wealthiest countries, it looks like nothing. What, because money is involved, that statistic is supposed to mean something? Or are you forgetting that most of these countries also don't have gun laws as strict as anywhere in the united states? Either way, the statistic about children may be true, but those children live in households lacking responsible adults. Nobody who's responsible with a firearm would leave it in a place where their child even knows they could find it. I lived in a house that contained a combat ready rifle, and I couldn't find the -blam!-ing thing ANYWHERE. I didn't go looking for it, because at a young age, I was taught to be responsible with firearms around, I've fired a few of them myself. .22 LR, .40 handgun 9mm glock, and a 30.6 big game rifle. I've also fired a crossbow, which has next to no regulations, but is silent and can kill faster.
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Statistics do mean something. Its clear as day. USA has the most killing by firearms in the world. What gun laws. Didn't you read anything I wrote?
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I did, but considering that the statistic is functionally false, your entire argument is losing credibility with each passing anti-firearm response. I don't expect to convince you that firearms are the end all be all of protection, but I'm expecting you to realize that they're not nearly as bad as you're making them out to be. [b][i]Responsible[/i][/b] gun owners make it a point to make sure their firearm is cleaned and taken care of, and up and out of reach and sight of children. If you're wondering why your statistic is wrong, look at Mexican gun crime, look at the gun crime in Equador, look at the gun crime in parts of South America, and in a few of the African nations, all of which have gun crime exceeding the U.S. by enormous numbers. Oh, but my points don't count, do they?
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How are they functionally false? It lists top countries in the world similar to USA and shows that use has more firearm deaths. How is that functionally wrong?
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Because its not a comparison of gun crime across the world.
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Edited by Unforgiven: 10/17/2015 12:10:51 AMIf you need statistics for world comparison simple google it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate here is firearm related death per 100k population - US comes in 10th. But don't compare us to third world countries. Compare instead to Wealthy countries becauses thats a better comparison. Among wealthy countries we are #1.Don't compared us to for example Honduras - the country that is plagued by gang wars. That would not be a good comparison. The best comparison would be to countries of similar income and life expectancy. Any other comparison would be flawed. And the fact that Switzerland has the lowest mortality rate by guns. Is just skews the whole statistic, because their entire economy is based on Banking. If they had mass murder their banks wouldn't be profitable. There is a reason why people hold their money in Switzerland. Its because it is an easy way to hide money. But I am going off topic now.
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Well lets calm down a bit and talk about this. First of all, im not from america. Im from europe so we have clear gun rules here and that is no. The way i see it is that gun control is a very important thing. And banning them could solve alot of problems. Here in the netherlands there hasnt been a single school shooting as far as i know. Think its even like a couple in entire europe in the last 30 years. Why? Because we cant easely get our hands on guns. Look, i can understand that people want to protect themselfes. I also have a bat next to my bed just in case. But think about it. You dont put a handgun in a safe just to protect yourself. Because by the time you open the safe, its already to late and they are in your room. So you keep it at a place easy to reach. I legit think most of the people with guns in america are handeling it with care. Keeping it away from kids and so on. But there are always those that do not. Those create the situations that causes problems with guns. And its also the fact that instead of having a handgun for protection, there are people that have an entire armory at there house. I even heard from people that they have a freaking sniper rifle at home. For what is my question then. Again, im not from america so i really cant judge. All i do is sharing my opinion about it hoping i wont offend anyone. So stay calm and discuss and no name calling plz.
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I appreciate your opinion. Speaking as a person raised in the South, I have seen some of those things that you heard of. I would point out though that Switzerland has people strolling the streets with ARs strapped to their backs. I know that is like comparing apples to oranges. I would like to know what the Swiss do so differently than us. I freely admit that we have a problem here in America, but I also realize that the situation is far more complicated than just a mental illness problem. We tend to oversimplify the issue and that prevents any real meaningful change. I would love to study Swiss culture and find out what makes them able to have ARs without people killing each other in the streets.
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Aren't you talking about army tho? What normal people stroll the street with an AR strapped? You kidding me right?
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I legit didnt know that was going on in switcerland. Yeah that is also wrong. Right now i really dont have a solution for it. [spoiler]i know my spelling is horrible right now, but thats because i just realised we are also talking in a different thread and cant stop laughing. Lets say i will [i]let it go! Let it goo!![/i][/spoiler]
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Edited by Gladlin: 10/15/2015 5:53:48 PMYeah but as I said, the Swiss do not have a problem with gun violence despite the prevalence of ARs. This leads me to believe that there is something about the Swiss culture and society that prevents the violence we see over here. I am a student of criminology so I would love to spend a year in Switzerland and observe and learn from them. [spoiler]You are such a turd!! ;-). I am very pleased to meet you, friend.[/spoiler]
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Edited by Unforgiven: 10/15/2015 11:26:46 PMPossibly the Swiss have more common sense, and have better ways to keep the guns away from kids. Americans on the other hand so far have shown that they are unable to control the access of guns to children. Let me ask you a question. What do you to a little boy who doesn't listen. You take a way his toys. Same thing here. Take away the guns from the people. Simple. Eliminate the gun, and take away the risk of it doing harm. Simple.
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Taking away the guns will create more problems. There are people out there who will consider it a literal act of war if the government makes that move. For the sake of peace, I hope that never happens.
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Great they should make their own country then with their own stupid redneck laws. I prefer to be in a country where I don't have to worry about having someone shoot me in the head when I accidentally walk onto their property.
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I live in the Deep South. Never had that worry.
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Banning guns doesn't help alot though, because then the people with the guns are the criminals who got them illegally.
