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10/26/2015 11:12:00 PM
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People bashing on OP, a couple of things: 1. Regarding the "slippery slope": Now a lot the folks calling OP stupid and retarded and dozens of other immature crap, are almost certainly the same people arguing just a few weeks ago "Silver is just for cosmetics, quit being a tinfoil hat paranoid loser!" Well it's been maybe 2 weeks (has it even been 2 weeks yet??), and we've gone from cosmetics to consumables... THIS IS THE DEFINITION OF A SLIPPERY SLOPE. It's already happened. The slopes done slipped. In under a month we've gone from being able to buy *only* cosmetics with real world money to buying cosmetics AND consumables that provide a tangible in-game advantage (REGARDLESS of how minimal that advantage is). So continuing to bash on the OP for making the slippery slope argument in INVALID, as the slippery slope has already occurred. 2. For the multitudes arguing "But those items are already available in game for free!" You need to recognize, that you are literally making the OP's point. The word is dumb, but this IS the pay-to-win model. The idea is, there are things that can be acquired in the game by playing the game, and there is also a way to skip the in-game process and immediately purchase those things with real world cash. Whether these consumables actually let you "win" or not irrelevant, because that's a nonsense term and there's no prescription for what pay-to-win is, simply a philosophy... the point is that you can now subvert in-game processes by simply spending cash.. ..So to make the fallacy of your arguments here really clear, to say that "Those items are already available in-game from drops or the gunsmith," is equivalent to saying in this hypothetical: "Well sure you can buy a Sleeper Simulant for silver, but it's literally the exact same gun I could get by completing the quest." Again, I'm not ignorant, I realize these Halloween items are meaningless... the point is that slippery slope, that has now been proven within literally a matter of days, and the principal behind micro-transactions. Of course we don't know where they will go next with this... maybe this is the very last item you'll ever see for sale with silver other than emotes... but after already ramping up from cosmetics to consumables in days, it seems unlikely this is the last we'll see of Eververse. So while you all blindly accept this practice, or worse, chastise the OP for being critical of it... you are in fact being the *retards, idiots, fgts* or whatever other immature, inflammatory bullshit you all spew at people for sharing their opinions.
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  • It's for a holiday themed event. It has nothing to do with the game. Until it has something directly to do with the fundamental gameplay, I will continue to sleep soundly knowing Bungie isn't stupid enough to raise the ire of every tinfoil hat-wearing maniac on the forums.

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  • If anyone is losing sleep over any of this stuff, I think they have bigger issues to worry about than micro transactions in a video game. Either way, thanks for upholding the stereotype with the stigmatizing language..

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  • Edited by Corrick II: 10/27/2015 7:33:01 PM
    It's a figure of speech, but ok. Also, you disagree the forums aren't populate with conspiracy-spewing maniacs? I chose the term quite carefully.

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  • I hear you, and I can tell from your writing you're a smart dude... I worked in mental health for many years, so the word "maniac" has some upsetting connotations there. Sorry and certainly don't mean to be the PC police.. some words just hit me in that aggro spot if you know what I mean.

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  • Lmao you bring up you're career in mental health???? Dude you're argument in the first place was a bit pointless in the first place. Because nobody cares if bungo gives you the ability to reach 25 by spending 25$. In fact I pity the people that do spend 25$ on that. And if you think bungo will do something as stupid as make this pay to win, you got another thing coming.

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  • Let's save this comment for later when "bungo" does something you actually consider to be stupid... I wonder if you'll eat your words or just spew more trash talk. Because clearly THIS ONE, the level boosts, THIS is the last microtransaction we'll see right? The plan all along was *just* emotes, then *just* consumables, then *just* level boosts... but THEN that's it right? Hard stop on the microtransactions now for sure. They've clearly gotten as much as they want out of them at this point right? Great argument though, I totally see your point :\

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  • So what do you think they're gonna sell that's so bad, considering you clearly know more about that than me. I could foresee a level 40 boost, maybe some low light weapons and armor (like the vanguard pre-order) but nothing game breaking. Look at planetside. They have plenty of items you can buy with real money (way more than destiny) and there game is certainly not pay to win.

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  • We clearly have a different perspective on simply the concept of microtransactions. I don't care what they sell. I find them unethical and anti-consumer at a philosophical level. If Destiny had microtransactions in it when the game launched, I never would have bought it out of principal, because I don't want support this type of business practice in games.. So the fact that a game that I truly loved, and put in hundreds of hours into in year one, with all intentions to put thousands more into over the next several years, added this mechanic that I find repugnant, feels like a betrayal, and has quite literally ruined the game for me. I totally understand if you don't take as hard of a stance on the topic as I do, but that's just the reality for me.

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  • In this case it seems that I should just give up on this argument because of the fact you see it as ethnics and I can't necessarily tell you you're wrong in that aspect. I don't think it's going to get into a pay to win situation, but I'm probably thinking of pay to win on a different scale than you. You think micro transactions are bad and any bit make a game pay to win, I see it as something that breaks the game and is almost impossible to obtain without means of real payment.

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  • Kind of agree with slippery slope but the part about paying for a weapon even though we can get it in game is not even close to pay to win. Your statement would only be true if that said weapon was available for sale only.

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  • I understand what you are saying, and the "definition" of pay-to-win. I do. Another commenter was saying that I am splitting hairs here regarding what's available for sale vs what's available in game... I'd argue you're doing the same here with the verbiage, and ignoring the spirit of the message. This is why I think these terms are nonsense, and serve only to split the community by getting people to focus on the language rather than the guiding principals. Whether it's pay-to-win, pay-to-compete, or pay-to-put-on-a-mask-and-dance, the point the OP is trying to make is that this game is moving into a micro transaction model... In a game where collecting is the driving mechanic, I for one would not want to even have the presence of items, quests, cosmetics or anything for that matter that brings real world currency into play... To me it just innately damages the immersion, ease, and fun I get from the game (as a fairly neurotic Destiny player, I tend to fall on the "collector" side of things, and slowly but surely the list of stuff I won't have will grow unless I fork over more cash.. I realize is my own issue, but it's an issue worth raising)... and at this point I think it's hard to argue that this is the direction they are moving since we've already seen two iterations of micro transactions in a matter of a week or so. That said, if it's no big deal to you or anyone else, good on ya.

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  • I got the spirit of your message, hence I agree, for the most part, that the slippery slope has started. I think you're original post can only be made stronger if that one part about the weapon was removed. Just my opinion. Aside from that, you did bring a point of view I didn't consider from the OP. It made me think a bit. Thank you

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  • Ahh right on, I got you. Much appreciated!

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  • This is the most true post i have ever read on here. Totally agree

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  • [quote]People bashing on OP[/quote]Let them have their say. Bungie is headquartered in a free country. Yet there is a clear distinction in post, with one easily definable group all sharing the same base opinion and the rest of the Guardians responding with more than a semblance of rationale thought. And of course we see more frequently the posts of those who feel self superior and are affected by an unhealthy cognitive dissonance toward this game. Putting up with their base insults is the price of freedom. On these forums, putting up with them is also evidence of conviction.

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  • Is it weird that I envisioned you shouting this while atop a horse on like a blood-soaked battlefield? I certainly appreciate your conviction. I don't need everyone, or anyone really, to agree with my perspective on this or anything... It would just make these conversations more pleasant if people took a second to think and respond rather than knee-jerk shit-talking. And yeah, rational thought helps too.

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  • Edited by HeadButtYoNut: 10/26/2015 11:46:14 PM
    You do realize none of this is pay to win right? You dont have to pay a dime for this >.> You can fill a bag of 150 candies in 5 minutes >.> And glimmer items and tele's have been in the game from day 1. Simple added them in a box that can be bought for dumb amounts of money or be farmed up in 5 minutes by anyone does not mean a pay to win. This is just like the -blam!-ing morons screaming like babies with diaper rash on their crotch over datamined items that "CONFIRMED PAY TO WIN!!!!" That only turned out to be shit that would have been sold by Xur but was later scrapped in favor of Moldering Shards. Get a -blam!-ing grip people -.-; Go play a Free to Play MMO THEN COME BACK AND TALK ABOUT PAY TO WIN. Not freak out over -blam!-ing glimmer items that LIKELY 90% of he community has these things spilling out of their -blam!-ing ears as it is.

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  • Hmmm... yeah I see your point here HeadButtYoNut, you make a compelling argument. Thanks for your feedback :\

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  • Sorry if I came off as a dick. It just gets so angering seeing threads like this pop up.

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  • These threads don't simply pop up like pimples in junior high. There will always be Guardians who hate micro transactions and until this month, Destiny was a game without any.[spoiler]Except for that Red Bull crap.[/spoiler]

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  • Sorry to continue the circlejerk here.. but this exactly.

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  • No prob. This stuff gets all of us riled up, myself def included. No worries :)

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  • bump

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  • Damn son ! Well done !

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  • Well written. Thumbup

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