[quote] Back when games didn't have patches and updates you had to play them the way they came out. [/quote] Not to sound like one of those people you mentioned, but that exact part of your post meant one thing: [i]games had to be good at launch or they were going to fail.[/i] I like Destiny and all, but at its launch, I had never seen a game with a PvE component that was as bare-bones and kinda boring/confusing/frustrating (and not in good kind of frustrating way, like Souls games) than Destiny was.