I stopped agreeing with Lost Sols awhile ago.

How bout you spend your words on more important matters like bungie being able to make a good weapon meta across the board instead of using trials as a scapegoat to their failure

Ok normally you make some sound arguments and usually I agree with the things that you say. But lets just think about this for a second. Before trials, there was Iron Banner. That's what essentially killed AR's. The fact is that there is always going to be a number of people complaining on these forums for nerfs, and they'll say it trials till that's gone and then it'l be IB, and then they'll complain about regular crucible. There will be no end. In all honesty, Bungie shouldn't cater to any complaints on the forums. They should be able to see what's happening in the game themselves. Especially when it comes to the balance. Here's what needs to happen. They need to reset everything. All weapons. All Subclasses. Look at what worked and didn't work. Here's the list. Weapon ranges needed to defined. As defined as it is now. This would've reigned in Auto's, Hand cannons, and Shotguns. Pulses were weak in vanilla destiny. They needed to be brought up little by little. What was wrong with blink? Shotguns. The perks that made shotguns too good? Remove them from the rolls. Sniper rifles? Define range and remove last round and luck in the chamber proc except on precision shots. Heavy weapons? Does anything really need to be changed? No. Sunbreaker? This was obvious. They fixed it. Grenades on the subclasses didn't need to be touched damage wise. There are too many exotics for me to go over but I'll do the infamous ones. Thorn. Everyone hated it in it's original state. Don't know why. It had faults but that's how it was balanced. It didn't need the buff it received. They should've reduced and the dot and made it stack the way it does now. The Last Word. Once the range was defined it wouldn't have been a problem. Aside from the ads bug. But that was fixed. Suros Regime. Once range was defined and damage fall off became prominent it would've been fine. If there's another infamous one you'd like me to cover I'll edit this post. Now to the Mida and truth. Mida is straight up the most balanced exotic weapon in the game. Hasn't changed (to my knowledge) since day one. But now that they've nerfed every other weapon type besides scouts of course they're going to attack it. This would not happen though if the other weapons were as competitive. Truth. People wanna complain about being killed by a rocket launcher? Yeah it's got great tracking and it also has G&H but they nerfed both of those. The tracking used to be more aggressive and G&H had a bigger radius. What would they do? Nerf them again until it doesn't feel like they're getting a kill from the perks. Because they won't. They'll have to aim right at the person and if the rocket isn't close (and I mean in their face close) it won't kill them. Until then people will complain. The weapons need balance. It has nothing to do with the game modes. Someone at Bungie needs to step up and say "Hey, our sandbox is a mess now. We need to look at this from the beginning. Lets separate exotics from the normal weapon tunings and tune those as needed. Let's see why some weapons are better than others and implement changes that don't effect the damage stats unless they absolutely need to be. Lets remove perks that make weapons too good. Lets shoot for an average time to kill in PvP across all weapon types." But now you've got people thinking it's because of trials that we're in this sorry state. You're asking them to change something without actually looking at the root of the problem. That's exactly what the "community" did when they thought a weapon was too good. Look where that got us. Please go back to being be the voice of logic and reason that I remember you to be.

Sorry. I lost all respect for you. The only thing remotely interesting in this game is trials for many people. Instead of blaming bungie for making terrible balancing of guns and not separating pve and PvP you blame the players who have had to deal with unbalanced crap for over a year. To me crucible is way more fun. I don't enjoy running the raid for the 56th time to get a helmet with intellect and discipline or a roll on a pulse or whatever.

I don't know about removing Trials. I don't think the Trials kids will quit. They'll just find somewhere else to hang out. And they'll be PISSED. I think a better idea is to just tell Bungie to say "no" to nerfs. Also, I need to add that in every other game I play, I'm primarily a PvP player. In this one, however, I'm primarily PvE.... so, I wouldn't normally say this.... but the quality of life for PvE players needs to stop being tied to the balancing of PvP. I don't give a crap about all the ultranerds who keep saying that the raids are too easy, or that nightfall needs to be harder. Make the damn game enjoyable for the majority group of players... the casuals.

actually... Pulse rifles are still great, thorn ruined normal pvp too (even that's still good in pvp), and sun breakers were simply broken. When people say things as ignorant as that, it kinda pissed me off. Try to USE these weapons instead of making a post based off bullshit. Your complaining about people wanting a nerf on weapons, I understand. Yes, fusion rifle nerf was a dumb -blam!-ing nerf, but also, yes, mida is over powered. Mida has an astonishing 70+ aim assist, and it also shoots unbelievably fast. It can out beat an auto rifle, in close range, and destroy a sniper at long range, at the very least, its flinch when shot should be increased. You can't tell me these things didn't deserve what they got when they got nerfed. (Besides fusions)

Auto Rifles were ruined for a full year due to the first incarnation of Iron Banner being saturated by a single weapon. Not an entire class but a single weapon. That was a great while before Trials. The problem isn't game modes when your developer is swinging the nerfbat like they're Teddy Roosevelt. However responding in kind doesn't put you on even ground. I don't participate in Trials, but by petitioning to remove it and blatantly pointing the finger and labelling players who enjoy Trials as "the problem" does not a solution make. That's not even a work-around. Trials in itself is far from a failure and to truncate that experience would be just another damning nail in Bungie's coffin. Really tried not to notice but.. Your ideas are getting a lot more radical, and a lot less feesable. I'm genuinely sorry the game frustrates you that much, and has done so for over a year. The weapon tuning needs a lot of work in the crucible, especially when new weapons roll out. I'm in no way saying that Bungie has it right. But at one point, in ONE update ages ago Bungie addressed shotguns as they pertain to the crucible and the PvE environment and made separate value changes. Why is that not an option that people consider any more?

Why stop at ToO? It's the PvP content that is responsible for the endless nerf train this game rides.

Yes. Someone please flush the Toilet of Osiris now.