There is a problem with handcannons in the Crucible right now. As legendries, they perform quite well where they are designed to be used, usually besting all other primaries at close range. The shotgun nerf also gives them some additional freedom up close, but there are two large problems with this right now; The Last Word and Hawkmoon.
The Hawkmoon can still two-shot a target two headshots if one activates LITC. This is unacceptable in a balanced game. If you seek to use a handcannon on the border of range effectiveness, this is the only justified choice.
The Last Word has a niche the size of Africa, despite what many think. It pairs the damage of a normal handcannon with the fire-rate of an auto rifle. Perhaps it suffers with range and stability but these do not offset the fact that the Last Word does what any other hand cannon does at twice the speed with infinitely less skill required; in essence, it is a primary machine gun. The counter-argument that it only works in 1v1s, due to low mag size, does not sit well with me; an OP gun is still OP if I have to reload it. Skilled players rarely miss with it and in PvP there are enough people using it to make it completely overwhelming in all close range situations. Previously referred to as a "shotgun counter", in the absence of the shotgun they have become the only efficient, effective and universal close range weapon.
And herein lies the rub; these two guns do everything a standard handcannon can do better, the former with a broken two-shot regardless of armour and the latter with a blistering fire-rate that nullifies range problems. There is no reason to use any other handcannon (or auto rifle, in TLW's case) in that range.
I would like to see an impact reduction on TLW to compensate for the ridiculous fire rate; if it shoots like an auto rifle, I want it to do auto rifle damage (or at least damage that considers how fast the damn thing fires). This would open up the playing field for mid-impact handcannons and auto rifles.
I would like to see a decrease in LITC damage for Hawkmoon, considering it gets 3-per mag. Enough to keep it noticeable but not enough to allow double-headshot kills (which can occur 3 times per mag in the hands of an excellent player). This would also make the First Curse a more palatable selection.
In summary, TLW and HM do everything handcannons and auto rifles do better, leaving no room for alternatives. This needs to change, but what do you think should done?
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i dont mind the hawkmoon nowadays, its not as annoying as it used to be BUTT! TLW is still annoying af they should reduce the mag size and decrease the reload speed by a bit so people wont be able to just spray and pray and actually have to try and hit
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Hawkmoom was nerfed 2 times since ttk ... its still an exotic and you can't take away the exotic touch of this gun. The "touch" was always the high impact and the double dmg perk
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Please shut up. Oh my god. This shit never stops.
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can we just stop with this never ending cycle
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5/7 shots are hitting it sucks
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TLW did not need a buff from the last update. The hawkmoon did not need a nerf...
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Please don't get more things nerfed. Use hawkmoon. You'll see that it is'nt OP in the least. Last word however...
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Hawkmoon is fine I haven't seen 1 since the update, and you forgot about thorn.
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Please shut up
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Disagree.
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I got TLW before Xûr ever sold it. You have no idea.
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[quote]Concerning Mida: It's popular so it must be OP. That's it in a nutshell. If everyone used paper bags and managed to get 1 kill per game [b]someone would cry nerf[/b]. This community is overrun by kids who tie their ego to a unbalanced game mode. If it kills them then it's OP, because in their mind they are too good to die by a normal weapon. If the past year has taught us anything, it is that there [b]will always be something people will want nerfed[/b]. Players here don't want balance, they want to shift everything in their favor, and crying is their weapon of choice to achieve that. Sadly, Bungie listens.[/quote] The [u][i][b]exotics[/b][/i][/u] are doing great
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What? An exotic can do better than a legendary, gosh darn Billy, isn't that exciting news?
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If you say hawkmoon is broken you have a very poor understanding of this game.
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Edited by xPLASMAx21: 12/23/2015 5:11:57 PMI've lost faith in this community. I make valid points about TLW and Hawkmoon and all I get is "OMG OP is fgt, get good". You realise that I made a valid argument here. Some people have actually replied with some alternate opinions, but most of you are just denying the problem/ too afraid that Bungie will muck something up to even ask for change. Instead of offering insults, perhaps you should consider that Hawkmoon can and consistently does (in the hands of good players, discluding most people in the comments) two hit kill. TLW dominates its range and fan fire should only apply when hip-fired. Any other auto rifle or handcannon stands no chance against them, the majority that use pulse/scouts or TLW itself might not care about this, but as someone who enjoys handcannons such as the Byronic Hero and First Curse, it is infuriating to be put in situations wherein, no matter my gun skill, the speed of TLW overwhelms any possible anti-strategy.
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I'm slightly worried about the lack of a Satire tag. Spoiler alert: Exotics > Legendaries. Crazy, I know. Also you have to be extremely close for a hand cannon to actually deal full damage these days, especially with The Last Word. And you want it to do auto damage when it flies into orbit every time you fire it? No. Hawkmoon is only a 2-shot if you're within max impact range (and also 2 consecutive headshots with 1 being a luck shot is not as common as you might think). Try using a scout and distancing yourself a bit. You'll beat someone using either of these guns every single time.
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I do agree with hawkmoon , no weapon primary or special should have luck in chamber or final round no matter what,as for last word bungie is stupid don't understand why would they bring back weapons that brought so many problems in year one,, I do hope in destiny 2 no more luck in chamber or final round on any weapon,,
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1: Two shot headshot kills? That's the point. Headshots take some amount of skill to pull off, so it's only fitting to reward that with the kill you're trying to get. And 2: Don't you DARE talk shit about the Last Word. That's the best gun in the entire game as far as I'm concerned. It has beautiful design, a marvelous gold finish, has a stylish gunspin, and to top it off you fan the hammer like an ACTUAL revolver. You can say all you want about the stupid Hawkmoon, but don't touch my bae
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The last word only fires semi accurately at like 30 ft range. If you're that close that's your fault. Tl;dr Git gud
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or just use the hawkmoon or TLW & let the rest of us enjoy our game.
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Hawksaw is still good. Red death is still good. Autos are good. Hands cannons are good. Maybe you should adapt. Then you would sound more educated on the matter.
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Legendaries actually still have some ADS accuracy problems.
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Edited by DB Hemlock: 12/23/2015 7:30:28 PMWow -blam!-ing quit whining. Finally a handcannon becomes semi competitive in year 2 post nerf and everyone loses their shit. Hawkmoon is balanced. The Last Word is balanced. Hell even Thorn is balanced. They are all excellent weapons and deserve to be powerful for their intended uses. And my opinion is hell yeah you should be able to 2 shot someone with a Handcannon. It's not as easy as it looks. You want a solution to your "problem"? How about stop bitching for nerfs as a community and keep the things strong to make an even playing field. It's not nerf down, it's buff up. That's the answer. Buff Auto Rifles the way they are meant to be and you'll see a dramatic change to handcannon engagements. If you're getting your face melted by a Suros Regime you're probably going to have a difficult time aiming all precise shots with Hawkmoon and TLW. Smh seriously so many people are so quick to scream for a nerf when a half an ounce of logic can change the entire situation. Stop nerfing shit, start buffing the weak links.
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All I hear is "blah blah blah I'm a dirty slut". Stop bitching about two EXOTIC weapons and crying for nerfs. I bought a house in early November and all of my time off work was put into either fixing it up or playing Fallout. I haven't been on Destiny in over a month until this week. I finished the work on the house and the main story of Fallout so I decided to go back to Destiny and see how this latest patch was. This is the most balanced PvP has ever been! I see every type of primary used about equally. It's never been this way, EVER! All you pussies yelling nerf missed the days of Mythoclast and Suros.
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Edited by PwNy: 12/23/2015 6:50:47 PMYou're def wrong about Hawkmoon. Doesn't kill high armor guardians with 2 shots up close unless there are 2 lucky shots (which is quite rare). Plus the range drops off such that even low armor targets are usually not 2 shot kills unless both shots are lucky. This gun has been completely eviscerated, nerfed in so many ways it is barely worth using your exotic slot for. A legendary hand cannon with better range (i.e. most hand cannons) deals better damage down range than Hawkmoon, making the extra dmg from ballistics and luck meaningless. At this point all it really has going for it is a 13 round mag.
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So I guess get rid of exotics. Where you even here year 1? HC are practically non existent now.