But, what you are saying is a form of segregation for a "safe-haven" for female gamers. Hate to bring race into this, but I can not see a difference between this and saying white only bathrooms. While, you have said in a previous post I read, that you are not bringing sexism into this or stated it. It's sort of implied. Bringing women into a "safe-haven" from men, do you not think that is sort of enabling. Men or should I say boys have and always will be the same thats a given. But, what can change is how you deal with them. Instead of getting offended give it back to them. It's called having thick skin and is a part of daily life, male or female. People now a days are so easily offended (Speaking outside this issue as well) and then people start making excuses and saying this should not be allowed. Honestly, till this day Martin Luther King had the right idea. Also, Segregation is the problem.

I'm honestly not sure where to start with your statement, but I'll do my best. I think the thing that bothers me the most is the statement in the middle - "men or should I say boys have and always will be the same thats a given." It's not a given, not even a little bit. Saying so is somehow assuming men and boys aren't capable of not harassing women, not treating them poorly, not creating environments which are hostile to women in both overt and subtle ways. Frankly, I think that is pretty insulting to anyone who identifies as male, and it perpetuates the idea that women are somehow responsible for the poor behavior directed toward them - that our existence as women is the reason men act this way, and it's our problem to deal with because men aren't capable of handling themselves. In regards to your remark about people being so easily offended. Language matters. What we say matters. It teaches others what we believe; it teaches our children what to believe and how to act on that belief; it teaches other people what we think of them. What we say has a real impact on others, irrespective of our intent. Instead of focusing on people being easily offended, perhaps consider that maybe people have been offended, or even threatened, by similar behavior for a very long time, but it is only now marginally more safe to express those feelings. Just because it's new to you, doesn't mean it's actually new to the human experience. I also think your example of restrooms is a poor one. Public facilities should be available to everyone, regardless of any aspect of their identity. However, we still retain the right to free association in our private lives, and a group/clan is a private entity. If we were out on the forums perpetuating hate against anyone in any form, I might understand your concern. But we aren't, and I don't understand it, except in the way that I have come to understand anyone who picks this kind of argument with us - someone who is more concerned with policing how women go about organizing themselves and their lives than with confronting the very real problems that still exist in our society. It seems to be easier to say we aren't acting the way you want us to, we're not organizing, gaming, dressing, talking, existing in the way you want us to than to take responsibility for your part in perpetuating a system that oppresses anyone who is not part of the dominant group. Maybe that's out of fear that you'll somehow lose your unearned privilege, maybe that's out of ignorance of how these systems form and are perpetuated, I really don't know. What I do know is that I'm over it. If joining and supporting an all-female group is "enabling" more women to be comfortable with gaming, to stand up for themselves because they have the support to do so, to have a community of people who can say they've been there and here's how they dealt with it, then I'll happily enable away. If that bothers you, that's something you need to examine for yourself. I have other things to do.

Can you not see the hypocrisy? You expect men to change, yet women should not be judged on the way they dress or act? Yes, boys act that way its called testosterone and puberty. Changing of hormones. But, here you are implying women are innoncent and the target of oppression. Men should take responsibility for there own actions, as well as women should. I see feminist all the time saying I should not be judge for what I wear. Yes, your clan is nice, women can feel empowered. Excluding men was my point, you know my "not so great example" you are still targeting a certain group and excluding them. I believe the term is separatists. The only way change is going to happen is if you bring the opposites together. Its a way to help share ideals and state your opinion. I said enabling because the vibe I get from groups like this are giving the ideals I am self-entitled and should be able do whatever I want without being judge. Being so easily offended, never once did I target you. Just stated my opinion on the matter. Yet in your response you were trying to make assumptions and target my character. You also said that we set the examples for our children, our future. I would not like to meet your children in the future is all I can say. All in all it's an opinion. People get so offended when their own opinions or ideals are challenged.

Expecting men who exhibit inappropriate behavior to change that behavior is somehow hypocritical? Preferring that people change poor behavior instead of resorting to treating them poorly in return is somehow hypocritical? Not accepting that the target of harassment is inherently responsible for that harassment is somehow hypocritical? I think one of us is confused about the definition of hypocrisy. And let's talk about targeting people. There are a lot of comments on this thread, and I don't see you going person by person to respond to all of them, nor do I see you making a general comment on the original post. What I do see you doing is responding directly to a comment I made. A comment that wasn't directed at you, in a conversation you weren't a part of, up until you inserted yourself into it. Which is fine, you get to do that, but of all the comments you had to choose from, you chose mine, and you want to say that you didn't "target" me? I find that difficult to believe. You get to have your opinion, and I'm not offended by your challenging my opinions or ideals. I do wish your challenge was something of actual substance, some new perspective of original insight that was helpful. It has turned out to be sadly unoriginal, even for this thread. Good luck in the world, guardian.

Like how you completely try to go around what I said. I said the hypocrisy of you expecting men to change but, women are completely fine. And targeting.... you went way off course I responded to your comment based on I disagreed with your statement. That is striking a conversation/debate which two civilized people can have(not an intent of insulting). You tried to target me directly by stating if I didn't agree I must be this. If my perspective is so unoriginal and has no substance, please do enlighten me as of why you completely avoided a logically debate and resorted to criticism. Yes, good day I hope whatever you want to happen unravels for you without effort.