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Edited by Axsios:
3/24/2016 12:29:16 AM
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This comment is irrelevant due to false informatiob that has been corrected
English
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[quote]To follow up it is impossible for firebolt to do 157 damage because it ticks for 7 and has a base damage of 85. I would check your math since you cant have 10.3 ticks of damage.... EDIT This reinforces my point of it doing 177 damage. 13 ticks of 7 plus 85 is 177. EDIT 2 You don't even know how long your dot is either.... rest in peace counter argument. EDIT 3 Charged melees are always avalible in smoke (and tether) and even sprint and double jump are avalible along with full vision and almost full movement capabilities if you arent in the first 3 meters of smoke.[/quote] Ill post the clip. I edited my OP. Its 85 base and 11 ticks of 7. Thats 162, not 177. Rest in peace your attempt and being cool.
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Just realized I was using pre 2.0 stats because of you, so thank you So if I was off by 14 damage thats one doctorine of passing shot. Its also only 23 damage down from one shotting a low armored charachter. That is also only 20 damage off from being double the damage of arcbolt. Also it keeps you weak for 12+ seconds and there is no escaping it once your tagged so if you take 20-50 damage (one burst from hawksaw 2 shots of a burst from reflection sum one handcannon bodyshot 4 doctorine of passing shots etc) your dead. It can also tag multiple people.
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[quote]Just realized I was using pre 2.0 stats because of you, so thank you So if I was off by 14 damage thats one doctorine of passing shot. Its also only 23 damage down from one shotting a low armored charachter. That is also only 20 damage off from being double the damage of arcbolt. Also it keeps you weak for 12+ seconds and there is no escaping it once your tagged so if you take 20-50 damage (one burst from hawksaw 2 shots of a burst from reflection sum one handcannon bodyshot 4 doctorine of passing shots etc) your dead. It can also tag multiple people.[/quote] All valid facts and i cant refute it. Firebolt will leave you 1 shot at low to medium armor builds. So will 5 other grenades. That argument has been adressed multiple times and cant be used effectively to deem firebolt as op.
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What are the other five grenades?
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Skip, lightning, trip mine, suppression, fusion one hits, flex one hits, magnet one hits, scatter, the fireball thing on gunslingers and sunbreakers. And wombo combo
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Skip - Extremely unreliable and while potential damage is huge can't hit because its tracking is ass Lightning - 122 damage is significantly less than 162 and is harder to land Tripmine - These can stick and do ALOT of damage if they don't about 199 which is alot however they are easily dodgeable by anyclass and stick out like a sore thumb Supression - It shouldnt do damage if it supresses you and I can get behind that nerf. Incindiary - Suffers from the same problem as wombo, can only do max potential damage if the target is standing literally on top of it when it explodes. Incindiary is very very powerful but its also a frag and bounces alot and csn be hard to land. It can even only tag people for one in which they only take the burn. All these nades have tradeoffs, firebolts don't.
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I will fight you on the matter of suppression grenades, a lot like incendiary grenades they are some of the most difficult to use properly. I admit I do not get kills with them often, but those few times are nice.
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But 170 for landing a grenade that already takes away your ablilities for a substantial amount of time is a bit much wouldnt you agree?
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Edited by LordMoldyButte: 3/23/2016 11:21:24 PMDon't Incendiary grenades grenades do the same damage as well as apply a burn? If not my bad, but I would rather be suppressed then burning after that much damage.
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Hmm mm boiii I'm about to spit roast you like no other I can see validity in all of your points except skip grenades if they lock on you their tracking is beyond insane and really really fast. I don't want it nerfed. I really really don't. I'm tired of nerds I would rather see other grenades brought up to great standards. And Firebolt does have a drawback of taking up two perks slots to be effective, oh and don't forget Sunsingers are only as powerful as their grenade and Melee in the crucible, keep in mind when when you are looking to -blam!-ing nerf everything.
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I disagree with your points on skips, they really don't track me all the much. I just go around a corner and they fail to hit me. The grenade and melee point is a good one but in a game like destiny where your grenade and melee are so vital its important to balance them, so theres no excuse why they shouldnt be taken down to the levels of others. Finally, yes it takes up two perks. But those perks, when used in conjunction are just way to good.
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We can agree to disagree about skip, but the Sunsingers need a stronger than average Melee and Grenade to compete otherwise they are useless, and no one wants that. Even though I dislike nerfs I would propose speeding up the tick damage so that it as at least half the time you are burning and on top of that buff several other grenades, not too much mind you, but make them able to compete in competent hands. I'm looking at arcbolt, axion, storm, scatter, pulse, they all suck and need a massive change
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I think that they should bring the base damage up to 100 then do 8 slower ticks of g damage then you get a 133 damage grenadr that still keeps people weak for a while. Its more than lightning grenade and it keeps people weak, thats a fair trade off. This is different from my earlier proposal of 8 ticks of 3 at the same rate. This way it keeps you weak still longer and has more damage but not as much as now.
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Meh. You forget it takes two perks and you are affecting the burn so you also have to account for the melee. So if it were to do that I propose we remove viking funeral, replace it with something like.... Quickdraw or speed reload or something beneficial in the neutral game and keep touch of flame to do that much damage. Also the melee would have the same affect I suppose except burn an extra two ticks of 8 so it does more damage but not much or two little
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The melee already does somewhere around 175-199 I could be wrong. Thats a ton of damage, If this nerf applied the melee would do 122 initial like all melees then the 32 for a total of 154. Thats still alot of damage. I acknoladge the two perks thing but someone earlier said they need 2 perks to competer. No they need 2 perks to dominate. Big difference. Theres a reason that in destiny tournamenrs they don't allow 2 of the same subclass. It was made because of sunsinger. These nerfs would perfectly balance the class.
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Firebolts are garbage without burn. Just as bad as arcbolt
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And arcbolt got nerfed because of firebolt. The burn would still exists. 132 is still more than pre nerf arcbolt which was 122. The burn wouldnt be able to be used as offensively which would be good. It would have a trade off.
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It would but that's still too weak for taking up double perks. I would be more agreeable if it didn't take two perks, without them it is terrible doing only 85 damage
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Your ignoring how long it would keep people weak. Thats ehat thre grenade should do. Just because something takes two perks doesnt mean its overpowered. What if smoke did full damage of 16 the entire duration and kept you completely blind. That still would take lockdown and envenomed but it would still be overpowered.
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But if it takes two perks it should be strong, not weak that's too weak, and you keep forgetting that the Sunsinger relies on its grenades and melee to be powerful so they have to borderline op, otherwise why use the damn subclass. It would be like nova bomb collecting dust in the crucible
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It is overpowered not borderline overpowered. 132 damage grenade that keeps you weak is borderline overpowered. By your logic smoke should do what I mentioned above. Lets also give it a 10 meter radius because It takes two perks. Or how about we buff bladedancer to how they were in week 1 with 100% armor increase while in bladedance. But wait... we'll make it so that hungering blade and quickdraw both give a 50% armor boost to super. That way it takes two perks.
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You are completely ignoring my argument that the grenades are the super. If the warlock had that grenade and walked around with a massive flamethrower or some shit then I would agree it needs a nerf. But all radiance does is increase armor and make you look cool for 12 seconds and the option to self res. But blade dance has a one hit melee, increased armor, increased speed, and a great grenade in the skip
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Like I said, skip is unreliable. Bladedance never hits. Sunsinger gets more armor with the super than bladedancer. It wouldn't hurt the super becsuse it would still take 2 nades to kill someone. No offense but at this point aa your arguments are exhausted and you're trying too keep a crutch.....
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A crutch a crutch, my God. Your arguments against mine is all opinion based. I have mained Sunsinger since day one. They get nothing but armor boost and the ability to [i]more effectively use their grenades and melee.[/i] nerfing it that hard would make the damn class weak as hell in the crucible. Which is not what anyone wants. For Christ sakes I presented a perfectly fine deal to nerf the nades fairly but keep the class strong. It is not unreasonable to to change a perk In the class to make it balanced
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If they are playing with the perk they need to take viking funeral out period. That hurts the class more than what I proposed.
