[quote]I don't care what they buff or nerf, however, the reason people complain about it is not the amount of damage. It is how long it can put you out of combat. If it was about damage then the titans overcharge melee would be getting all of the attention with its 180 damage at once. But no one cares. One sloppily placed grenade shouldn't be able to take away the enemies combat effectiveness for that long of a period of time.[/quote] Throwing a grenade and its ease is 100% subjective to the user. Just because youre good with firebolts and not smoke/void nades' doesnt mean everyone isnt capable either. It burns for 7 damage every second for 11 seconds. Your recovery is up to you. Youre in trials and discover they have sunsingers? Up your recovery and dont bitch about the time it takes YOU to recover. It also doesnt OHK ever. It may leave you one-hot but... how many other grenades do more damage? 4-5? Yeah, invalid as an argument. Declaring throwing a[quote]sloppily placed grenade[/quote]can remove player's effectiveness and deeming THATS why its "op" is probably one of least intelligent reasons ive heard so far. No offense. Burn is one thing but there ARE many things you can do to prepare for a 3v3 against sunsingers. Do you really think that 3 sunsingers with firebolts is not as strong or in the same caliber as 3 Nightstalkers with wombo? Come on. Keep in mind as you read this, i dont think either is op and also believe they are balanced. One key factor to this sunsinger thing is that these posts, nerf posts ans popular streamers have brought SOOOO much attention sunsingers, a class that has been here since day 1, allowing players to have already developed play styles and tactics, so many people jumped on the band wagon. Casual/average/bad players will still be bad with sunsinger and you can easily tell. But skilled players will make ANY class a deadly weapon.

1st. I said that I don't care what they buff or nerf. I will combat it effectively either way. 2nd, If you increase your recovery, then you can be OHK by the warlock melee. 3rd, the nade doesn't OHK, but it gives 17 seconds for the warlock to land one bullet for the kill. 4th. I never said that there were other more useful classes for skilled players. The firebolt is simply usable by everyone. Therefor is a crutch.

[quote]1st. I said that I don't care what they buff or nerf. I will combat it effectively either way. 2nd, If you increase your recovery, then you can be OHK by the warlock melee. 3rd, the nade doesn't OHK, but it gives 17 seconds for the warlock to land one bullet for the kill. 4th. I never said that there were other more useful classes for skilled players. The firebolt is simply usable by everyone. Therefor is a crutch.[/quote] 1) Doubtful by the way you complain about ONE grenade 2) You can be OHK by alot more abilities/grenades than just firebolt. 3) 11 seconds of burn and youre getting 17 from what? From when burn stops--->Full health or untill recocery starts? 4) ..... so is shoulder charge or shadestep or golden gun or skip grenades or stormtrance or blink. Ease of use doesnt declare anything.

1. I could rant about any ability. I really enjoy this game and have opinions on every ability. This thread is about this one ability though. 2. The issue isn't OHK, the issue is the time out of combat. The grenade will keep you out of combat for 17 seconds. If you let yourself have faster recovery then the melee will keep you out of combat for a long time and it will end in certain death. 3. 17 seconds until recovery starts, considering you have enough armor to protect yourself from warlock melees. 4.1 Shoulder charging tends to result in a rapid loss of kd unless your skilled with it. 4.2 Shade stepping takes skill to use effectively. 4.3 golden gun is a super and irrelevant to this discussion. same with storm trance. 4.4 Skip grenades are honestly annoying. These don't take skill to use. However, the subclass is built around melees. Hunter melees are broken so this subclass is ineffective in most situations. 4.5 Blink used to not require any skill. With the way things are now, blinking while an enemy can see you is suicide. The time it takes to draw weapons makes it less offensive then it used to be. The usability does matter. whether you are a skilled player or not, these nades by themselves can keep the enemy at bay.

Youre obviously biased, im agreeing to disagree. Deuces ✌

This idea that burning puts you out of combat for too long or that how well placed a grenade should be placed isn't a very good standing point because I could easily say don't hide around corners and get hit by said grenade after seeing or getting into a firefight with said warlock.

You act as if the grenade can only be thrown at corner campers. Do all warlock lack the ability to throw a nade at a moving target? No. If you get hit by the nade it is over for you. Else, you wait for 17 seconds until regen activates to go back into the fight.

It doesn't burn for 17 seconds it never has and it never will it burns for 9 seconds if that stop over extending times to make your lack of ability to either run into the grenade directly and take only 97 dmg no burn or just kill the warlock eat the burn and recover, before you mention it the time it takes for your character to recover after the burn stops is up to your recovery stat.

I never said it burned for 17. I said 17 until recovery starts. If you try to take on the warlock, odds are that the warlock will at least land 1 bullet. Then you will burn to death. Still wasting a lot of time to burn out. You could increase recovery stat to reduce that, however, if you do then your armor rating will be within range of the warlock melee to one shot kill you. I shouldn't need to mention how easy it is for warlocks to land melees. compared to hunters that is. (I am not saying that warlock snipe melees need to be nerfed. I don't mind.)

It burns for 11 seconds pardon my dust from the above post, but if you face the warlock you atleast get the chance to fight back unlike the hunter golden gun or even the hunter double knife of death but a grenade that doesn't kill you unless you have 162 health or under is OP because it does that damage over time. :^/

Did you just compare a firebolt grenade to a super? Case closed. Double hunter knife of death?!? It takes skill to land those things. they need to hit to kill effectively. And they take a long time to recover both. The grenade is op because the warlock has 17 seconds to shoot a single bullet into you to get the kill. In the meantime, the people hit by the grenade either need to accept death or run away.

Skill you say? Throwing two knives tat have aim assist is no skill it is simply getting a free kill where as the warlock has to come to you or have damaged you enough to make it so that the GRENADE kills you.