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6/6/2016 1:31:13 AM
342

The Problem with Destiny's Exotics

Exotics should be god-tier, better than other non-exotics

4310

Exotics should be on the same level as non-exotics

263

Down with Exotics, fast fire legendaries 4 lyfe

111

My personal story [spoiler] Recently, I took a very, VERY long hiatus from Destiny to play most of the new games that came out (i.e. Overwatch, Doom) and some old games (i.e. Halo series, Bonerlands, etc). Keep in mind that before I took this break, I'd played Destiny almost every single day for a year and a half. I was playing Doom when I was using the "Double Shotty Combo" (both combat shotgun and super shotgun) and I was top of the leaderboards when I thought, "This shit needs to be nerfed", followed by, "WHAT MANNER OF SISSYNESS IS THIS? Just because something is performing well, it needs to be nerfed?" That little voice in the back of my head said that that's how Destiny manages to keep it's exotics in check. Then it dawned on me, that feeling I hadn't felt in a long time. I was having FUN in Doom, where I hadn't had fun in Crucible since before HoW, before the dark times. At that moment, I realized something.[/spoiler] DESTINY'S FANS HAVE RUINED THE GAME: A History Lesson [spoiler] When Destiny launched back in September 2014, exotics were described as the best of the best, weapons obtained by feats of strength, the hardest activities in the game, etc. Ok, maybe all that didn't pan out, but the part about the best of the best was at least still true. Ice Breaker hit like a truck and had ammo to spare, Invective was the only true fully automatic shotgun, Gjallarhorn was the best boss melter in the game, Red Death could keep you in the fight longer, a Crucible gun with Crucible lore, designed for Crucible, The Last Word had an actual reason to hip-fire, Thorn not only stopped Regen, but also did damage. Then came the Mythoclast, the first gun worth calling a nerf for. The fair few people who actually got the gun, or got paired up realized this gun was broken. People getting 4 shot cross mapped, killed through walls because of Fusion rifle hit-scan, other nerf-worthy incidents. Bungie stomped out a weed before it became a problem, good for them. Then came Suros. A little less nerf-worthy, but certainly a problem. Then all was good, a few patches here and there, but nothing compared to the newest meta; The HoW Meta. Thorn, TLW, and Red Death. The 9 months meta. Thorn was kept in check by a low ammo count with slow reload. The Last Word was kept in check by actually requiring skill to accurately hip-fire. Red Death was always a good choice in Crucible. Then Thorn's ammo count was buffed to 150%, with a reload twice as fast, The Last Word was glitched to not require hip-fire, and Red Death was thrown in as practically the only counter for them. Ever since then, the Forums are constantly plagued by calls for nerfs, buffs, outlandishly ludicrous changes to be made, leading to the destruction of the best weapons in the game.[/spoiler] EXOTICS ARE NOW MOSTLY OBSOLETE [spoiler] Think back to when you got your first exotic. You probably didn't get it fighting the Gas Wyrms of Jupiter, or helping to defend Twilight Gap or the Battle of Six Fronts. You probably got it from something mundane, like as a Strike reward or bottom of the team in Crucible or being a dreaded Xurner. But it didn't matter, it was special to you. "Wow, this weapon shoots poison!" "My gun reloads after every kill!" "This rifle regenerates ammo, that's so cool." It was a magical moment for most all of us, a weapon to be proud of. Now think about someone who just picked up the game recently, someone who is running around with his gunsmith Suros auto rifle rolled with glass half full and focused fire. He places 3rd in the crucible and gets the Suros Regime. "Oh wow, an exotic!" He compares the stats. "My legendary is better in every single way to this crappy exotic." His friend, with equally bad luck, finishes King's Fall and gets Thunderlord. But wait, he rolled a Qullim's Terminus with feeding frenzy. Who needs to waste an exotic slot when you already have a weapon that does the same job, and then some. Now their 3rd friend has ridiculously good luck and gets a god-roll Grasp of Malok on his first run of the Omnigul. When he gets back to the Tower, he decides an engram and gets Bad Juju. "Oh yeah, new exotic!" But the stats on Bad Juju are worse than Grasp of Malok, and he's already got 100% Intellect.[/spoiler] As it stands in the game now, there are very few exotics worth trading a legendary equivalent for. The Last Word has lost any reason to be hip-fired anymore, Suros feels like an overshined legendary gunsmith order, Tlauloc feels like a poor man's Mida Multitool, which is one of the few surviving exotics, almost every heavy machine gun being used is Qullim's Terminus, Thorn shoots tickle darts that do no damage and last about the time it takes to blink, Touch of Malice is literally only used on Oryx and Sisters, I could go on but I think I've made my point. Most of the current Exotics in this game don't really feel 'Exotic' anymore. They just feel like workhorses with a different paint job, and are often times outclassed by other legendaries, or their class it so rigid that there are better options for almost every single activity. (Looking at you Dreg's Promise) Exotics are becoming nothing more than novelty items, things to be flaunted, then switched out or used as a joke. I, for one, can no longer stand the abuse and mistreatment of Exotics any longer, but you can help for just pennies a day. Call 1(800)-555-EXOTIC to cast your vote on whether we should keep exotics on our level, or elevate them to their previous godhood, or just select a choice above.

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  • I completely agree. I only use exotics now because they have high light or I haven't gotten a good legendary roll. They don't feel exotic anymore. I think they made a mistake by nerfing all of the exotics so much.

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  • Basically the only exotics that feel exotic are Dark-Drinker, (occasionally) MIDA, Lord of Wolves, and Truth. That is a major problem.

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  • Maybe just make Trials and any further hardcore match type disallow exotics, and then buff them out the wazoo! I for one still like most exotics, and the ones I don't like are for style reasons than anything else. We can only equip 1, so, it better be darn worth it. MIDA is still a great exotic, but only in the sense of high-performance. It does very little that's special, besides shoot real good. I do want to say though, you've forgotten the special perks most good exotics have that make less-than-optimal stats worth it. Invective grows ammo back, Bad Juju can turbo-charge your super (though it's less useful in PvP), Zhalo can melt crowds, boost your super,, or score you an extra lucky kill in PvP, Hard Light has practically non-existent falloff, Red Death still heals you, Sleeper Sim is a death-ray, Hawkmoon has a massive mag for a Hand Cannon plus 3 lucky shots, Super Good Advice can now empty it's whole reserves without reloading! (WHY did they nerf machinegun reserves?? SGA needs to swap out it's Flared Magwell for Field Scout!) But yeah, performance-wise, most exotics are sub-par, and their perks don't always make up for them. Some are totally cheap, some are useless. Who would use 4th Horse-Crap over Invective? Even invective's stats are better! 4th Horseman will just burn up your already-nerfed reserve ammo!

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  • I agree with your post for everything except Tlaloc, which is better than MiDa once the super is charged, and along with Zhalo Supercell and to a smaller extent Sleeper Simulant, is the one of the only guns in Year 2 I would class as Exotic. Tlaloc is truly amazing and destroys in both PvE and PvP. If you don't believe so then I'd say you haven't practiced with it enough. Things like Boolean Gemini kinda seem semi exotic but unbalanced between classes. Put Boolean Gem on a Gunslinger with Trance and Woe on and it's amazing. Same for Defender using the Touch, though at the same time you could argue..... but why? I think Bungie ruined it for themselves by having such great exotics in Year 1 and then not introducing things to be at that level. If Year 1 and Year 2's exotics were swapped, we'd most likely be praising the new exotics. For gods sake does anyone remember the utter beast that is Pocket Infinity, urgh I keep bringing that out in Mayhem modes for the destruction. You're right on the basis that some legendaries seem to surpass their exotic companions. Why is Quillims not stat wise on comparison with Thunderlord but when used, blatently better. Somethings secretly up there Bungie. Why is Doctrine of Passing better than a Necrochasm. Do you know the crap we had to go through for Necro? Hell I'm a year 1 player and still don't have it. I hope Destiny 2 addresses all of this.

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    • I still love my zhalo, though.

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    • They should break the game and cause people to giggle every time they got melted. PVP is pretty much a joke, but for some reason, Bungie insists on encouraging the delusions of the "competitive destiny players" (of which there is no such thing, as destiny is casual).

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    • [quote]Tlauloc feels like a poor man's Mida Multitool[/quote] You sir, have no idea how good Tlaloc actually is. That thing at full power was better than MIDA in it's prime. Sure, you have to forego your Super, but with Tlaloc you don't NEED your Super. Your gun is your Super at that point.

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    • They should be a little bit better than any legendary. That's the whole reason why you can only equip ONE. "God-tier" is going too far because it eventually forces everyone to use the exact same loadout.... Cough cough Ghorn.

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      • If everyone just ran around with exotics, what would be the point of legendary weapons? Just to fill the spot?

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      • Why not keep exotics the way they are and make an ultra class? Make them the God Tier.

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      • Edited by SandmanRechena: 6/7/2016 2:17:29 PM
        Exotics should feel like exotics and should always be better than legendaries in their weapon class. For instance, I'm a hand cannons guy and I kill mostly with my primary. So, I should choose a exotic hand cannon and use a legendary special and heavy. The same way someone that likes hand cannons but kills mainly with a sniper should have an amazing exotic sniper paired with a legendary hand cannon and heavy weapon. And so on and so forth. Exotics should always be better than legendaries and people should choose using an exotic as a primary, special or heavy according to their style of game and preferencies. What do we have nowadays? Primary legendaries with god rolls that smash almost all exotics. Exotic snipers and shotguns that are a lot worse than most legendaries. And no point in talking about heavy weapons, most exotics suck. Was Destiny less balanced in year one? Yes. Was it more fun? Hell yes. And this is only about pvp, I won't even get into pve because this would be far too long.

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      • I completely agree with you. I'll never forget that day in November 2014. I had grinded all of that Sunday on an exotic quest I had no idea about. That night, when I finally got it finished, I was rewarded with Bad Juju. I was in awe, wow my first exotic gun is a beast! Aesthetically pleasing, and it reloads instantly after a kill, and charges my super! Wow. Now I open a primary exotic engram and go eh? What's this? Monte Carlo? Meh, exotic shard. I too have been noticing the PvE boss dominance of Sleeper Simulant. I also love my Tlaloc. Lately however, I have been playing a lot of crucible and I have grown very fond of my Jade Rabbit. I am a huge fan of scout rifles and since getting use to the recoil and slow fire rate this gun feels 'exotic' for me in the crucible. It can stagger snipers and outgun anyone at distance. Hell, i have even outgunned pulse and auto rifles at close range!

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      • Edited by The 7th fall: 6/7/2016 4:08:22 AM
        The real problem with the exotics is Bungie. Lets put out a few examples: - Originally TLW was a monster in and out of PvP, the very definition of exotic on a gun... now it's just an auto-firing gun NOBODY will hip-fire anymore because of how many nerfs it got due to the minority complaining it was OP. Rightfully so I agree, but Bungie shoulda buffed something else to be in line, OR nerf the range of TLW so the range and falloff drastically affected damage outside of normal fusion rifle or long range for shotguns -to emphasize it being a duelist's gun from the old western times. - Hawkmoon used to be THE definition of a hand cannon, it could snipe snipers, kill someone in one shot(pure luck), and it was pinpoint accuract and just as deadly as a hunting Hawk... now it's just a short range ghost bullet pistol that is not even a shadow of it's former self. - Thorn was probably THE MOST unique exotic of the lot. It had characteristics of Hive design, shot out railroad spikes that caused hefty DoT(it did need nerfing), and it was the ultimate Guardian Bane... now it has hilariously bad accuracy, sh*t recoil, no real range and the DoT is just absolutely pathetic. - Red Death during the pulse rifle era truly was "A Guardian Killer" and was well worth the usage in PvE too... now with the steep range nerf, falloff nerf and damage nerf it is a "Guardian Tickler" and barely worth the usage in PvE. You see the trend? Whatever gun holds a lot of usage will naturally get used over all others, and Bungie's response is to nerf that gun AND it's class type rather than balancing out the gun itself or buffing others up to be on par with it or at least a competitive option.

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        • [spoiler]bonerlands[/spoiler] Never heard of that game before

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        • What is that tag

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        • I believe three of coins ruined the game. I refuse to use them

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          • get rid of 3 of coins

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            • This guy gets it!!!!

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            • Absolutely! Few exotics are worth holding a slot for on a routine basis. I would rather have a decent Legendary that doesn't lock my choices. However, it is somewhat fun getting a new exotic and playing with it to see if it's any good. I have found a few that i really like. Take shotguns - which I like - Invective is priceless to me because of the ammo regen. I like the mag size and fire rate of Lord of Wolves.... Mida is perhaps my go to scout, but now I have a CCL Badger that is higher, and pack a wallop. Jade Rabbit is decent... Truth tracks like crazy..... Basically I think exotics are 'not bad'. Which is damning praise at best. They should be at a level that makes them [b]compelling[/b] to use... Then again - with all the exotic drops... Are they [i]really[/i] exotic anymore?

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            • Hehe, Bonerlands.

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            • How about make exotics good again and just ban them from crucible.

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              • Edited by Irenus: 6/7/2016 6:42:49 AM
                Honestly there needs to be a department JUST for making exotics. That way there can be hundreds of these unique/powerful things. Then all they'd need to do is allow there to be many ways to find these exotics... Raids, patrols, the "Wild," et cetera. Exotics should be rare, but not too rare. Exotics should define a player. I want to see a weapon and say, "What is [i]that?[/i]" Not, "Oh, just another last word. So [i]exotic.[/i]" (And take out three of coins.) Exotics shouldn't be data-mineable. Every exotic should be powerful. (Or better than a legendary of the same archetype.)

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                • Edited by ChronoDragonT27: 6/7/2016 3:09:59 AM
                  Exotics can only take one weapon slot and one armor slot (2 if you have a exotic mark). It is a no-brainer that exotic should be class-SS god tier equipment. Blame the whiny PVP crowd for ruining them. #PVELivesMatter

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                  • A perfect example of how exotics should be is borderlands. Exotics should be crazy unique guns that are situationally great (fighting certain enemies, only good for specific builds, ect...), but not necessarily better than they're legendary counter parts. Unfortunately, and I really hate to say this, but the problem is pvp. You can't make really crazy fun stuff without people finding a way to abuse it in pvp. You even take something simple (putting a DoT on a handcannon) and it can get massively out of control. While I would love some new crazy exotics, I love destiny for it's continuous pve to pvp experience. It's one of bungie's main philosophies and it's unlikely to change. Hopefully the dev's can find new inventive ways to create interesting weapons while keeping balance relatively in place.

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                    • If I'm to be honest, I've always wanted Exotics to be fun, niche weaponry, with roles that can't be stolen by any other legendary. Ice Breaker was a prime example of this: it was a fine sniper rifle (though outdone by many of its legendary counterparts), but it also had ammo regeneration, explosions upon kills, and a freaking awesome design. On the other hand, it was limited to six rounds, and had a crappy fire rate. Now that was an exotic. A lot of these "exotic" perks, are just tiny buffs to otherwise standard guns. I don't want that. I want unique attributes, like impact and range, and I want perks that are powerful, but situational. Look at the First Curse: it's damn good for PvP, but its "exotic" perk is nothing special. Same with Plan C, and Suros Regime, and even the Mida.

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                      • I remember getting ice breaker when it meant something. For several weeks I equipped it when strolling through the tower. It was great. Now the only exotic I use Is year two dragons breath. The rest of my exotics really do not compare to the new exotics. From hung jury to soul breakers claw, most exotics just don't stack up against them. I do use the three of coins to get exotics, just to infuse them into my legendary 's. The strutting your stuff with that hard earned exotic days are over.

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