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7/17/2016 11:42:44 PM
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You mention that if you play it is extremely hard to counter, and while I think that people playing smart should be more difficult to kill than those without good tactics, I don't think that it is really that hard to counter. I find it hard to believe that out of the little time you use it, which you mentioned, you never or almost never got killed while sprinting to try and activate it. After having used it extensively, it is not that easy to counter, but by no means impossible or extremely difficult to avoid. You then mention that shoulder charge has high aim assist, which it kind of has to have for it to be usable- Imagine that you shoulder charged at someone and all they needed to do was primary jump over you and then easily shoot you in the back. You then say that you have to use a shotgun to counter it, and again, this is not as true as you might think. I almost never use shotgun and very rarely use universal remote except when I am feeling like it for whatever reason. I can still very easily counter striker titans rushing at me because they (at least 3/5 times) run in a straight line without firing at me, which gives me no problem taking them down. On my titan, I run the same load out every game and I rarely have to change it due to class abilities. Again, this varies from person to person, so you may have different experiences. Also, you cannot say that Red Death was a good counter to Thorn, because you had to rely on your opponent missing shots to win such a fight. Let me try and give an example: If two highly skilled players with good aim and spatial awareness go head to head, and one is using Thorn while the other is using Red Death, the one with Thorn is going to win much, much more frequently then the Red Death user. But if one was using shoulder charge, you would see that the shoulder charge user wouldn't always get the kill, but neither would the one who is trying to counter it. I am unsure if that makes sense, and I know there are a whole lot of other factors to throw in. Furthermore, you mention that when something is OP, people have to change their load out to counter it, and as I mentioned above, that is not always true. But, again this varies from person to person, and while some might have to change their load out to counter something, others might not. Finally, I would like to know what load out you use in most of your games, without considering the changes that you might make supposedly because of shoulder charge.
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On my hunter I run last word longbow for sweats and usually a sniper hand cannon or hand cannon shotgun for normal play. On my Titan I usually run mida conspiracy theory, I will either run twilight or arms depending on map and opponents. Again what I meant by changing load outs is that yes a shoulder charge running straight at you is easy to counter but one who plays correctly is very hard to counter even with a last word. Most of the time when I do get shoulder charged on my hunter it is around a corner on a map like fire base. This ties into its tracking like abilities. I will often shoulder charge someone and they will jump while I am shoulder charging and I will still get them. I even curve around corners with my shoulder charge. It is basically like a shotgun when used this way. After playing shoulder charge on my Titan I have learned that it only takes skill to dodge an opponents fire, once you get to the opponent there is no skill required. The reason I think shoulder charge should be nerfed is that it is giving a free one hit melee with health recovery ( depending on your build) all you have to do is run for 2 seconds and get to an opponent. The other reason I think shoulder charge is a little too strong is context. On maps like shores of time, yeah it is easy to stop and the Titan can not do much to stop from being killed with it, but on maps like fire base and even twilight gap, shoulder charge is insane. Do I think it is the most OP thing in destiny? NO do I think it is balanced? NO
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Edited by KaratekAlan: 7/18/2016 2:01:24 AMYou mention that someone who plays correctly with that ability is very hard to counter, and I could say the same about people using shade step and using it almost every chance they get. But that doesn't make it overpowered, that is people using what they have on their subclass, combined with good spatial awareness and mobility. After having seen your load out, which always has at least 1 close range weapon (last word, hand cannon, or shotgun) I am very unsure if shoulder charge is really the problem. I don't mean to sound rude, but if somebody is rushing at you without a gun, even one with good spatial awareness and mobility as you say, and you are unable to kill them, it might be your aim. Of course, they might get you some of the time, but with a close range weapon such as the ones you have you should be able to kill targets that close to you who are not firing at you. Now, onto the tracking and aim assist. You say that it curves, and it has to for it to be usable because it would be too easy to avoid if it didn't track targets who were moving (which causes you to curve mid shoulder charge). Also, if you are getting shoulder charged around corners when they are not looking at you, what is happening is the person is moving past the door, spinning their camera towards you and shoulder charging in that direction before the character in game spins in that direction. Also, you mention that it is a free one hit kill with health recovery, but backstab with the right build does exactly that. Granted, it is easier to be able to do this from the front, even without a gun, than to do it from the back with a gun while standing. But I also think that you made it seem like all you have to do is run and boom there is a kill, and given what I talked about with being able to counter with close range weapons and spatial awareness, it seems somewhat unjustified.
