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Edited by PoundLovesYou: 8/31/2016 1:27:28 PM
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A bad PvPer's experience/take on SBMM - the built in system meant to help players like me...

[i]UPDATE: I just want to thank everyone for contributing to this conversation and for sharing their own experiences and knowledge. I have learned a ton already, and am glad that our community can have constructive, open conversations like this. I just want to say that I am doing my best to keep up with replies; however, I am in very poor health and it is very hard to maintain the pace that this conversation has. Please know that I will read everything as quickly as I can, but I encourage all of you to continue sharing and offering input actively, as it is truly a great thing for us to come together and talk about the game we love and dedicate much of our time and energy to. Thank you all.[/i] I don't really know why I am posting this, but after three games today with a k/d of below 0.30, I have lost all shame and dignity. A lot of people think that SBMM (skill-based matchmaking) only hurts the most talented players, as it pits them against other very skilled players, making every match a chore and ultra "sweaty." BUT... I am a lower-skilled PvP player, and I have come to realize that SBMM is really hurting my Destiny experience as well. The thing is, my best friends are all quite skilled in the Crucible, so, it hit me today in a bout of loneliness that I was avoiding my friends, because: If I play with a group of my friends, their great stats are a major matchmaking factor used when finding opponents for us to play against. That said, playing with my very best friends ultimately means a few things: I will get destroyed. (And) We are likely to lose when I go 2 and 15 and single-handedly cost my team of friends the game. So, as a result, i have been avoiding doing my favorite thing--playing Destiny PvP--with my very closest friends, which SUCKS. This is hopefully a little food for thought for those in support of SBMM to unsuccessfully make playing crucible as a lesser-skilled player more enjoyable (i.e. easier). Sorry for the lengthiness.

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    I made a new PS account a few months ago, to play around and have some fun with, but also to see where my "skill level" was at, compared to "lower skilled" players. I go straight into the crucible at rank 3 with the white Calcutta sniper and white handcannon (the first stuff the hunter gets) and no heavy, not unlocked yet and offcourse an totally un-upgraded subclass. My first 5 games i completely wrecked the opposition who had better weapons (legendaries etc) and most of them where around level 20-30. After a few more games i started to get matched up with level 40 players with fully maxed exotic weapons armour etc, and by my 10'th game in total my Kd was now around 1.6 - 2.0 (mostly because i was playing in a lower skilled pool then i am used to, my main Kd not even great btw, like 1.12) and i was now matching up with fully leveled sweaty players!! I even got matched up with a friend of mine (on my friends list on my main acc) which i KNOW FOR A FACT is a good player.. Its redicilous, here i am with my white weapons, level 15 or whatnot, getting constantly matched up against sweaties whit shottys, last words and the whole shabangabang!! Like give me a break, my character is obviously not ready for that, just because my Kd was good, my loadout and un-upgraded subclass is not ready for that after like 10 games of crucible.. This to me is the biggest proof of why SBMM is COMPLETELY AIDS and should be removed..

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    • Edited by iDovahBear: 8/31/2016 5:52:07 PM
      As a talented player with slightly more talented friends, even I start to feel this way during Trials. This matchmaking either undoes itself through excessive lag or simply feeling too sweaty. But what I hate the most are the matches that are a stalemate. Either team manages to take the lead back aggressively. In these games I find player participation bounces frequently and I lose a sense of contribution. Like I did poorly but we still won, but I could do three times as good or even worse and still have the match be a near stalemate. The algorithm is way too hard-handed. The game is way too methodical in how it tries to enforce a 50/50 win rate with 'balanced' teams. It's starting to feel as though when I'm doing the best I've done in awhile, I still feel damn horrible at the game. So when I actually perform terribly, it just makes the experience that much worse. I prefer a more lax matchmaking where the game isn't trying to stick to some self-righteous virtue, but rather just tries to put together the most convenient match-up and let people compete. The other part that has me annoyed is, our Destiny Tracker stats start to mean less when the system is literally designed around manipulating those stats. It's just kind of frustrating to see them fudge with something of a competitive gaming vice; our statistics. The other thing I don't like is the fact that matches would go by quicker if sometimes the teams were a little lopsided. I don't like every match coming down to the wire. And it just makes me believe that this whole 'Good Guy Bungo' scheme was just to try and make games last longer on average. #SpinMetalHat

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      • Same. 2 top tier coworkers.... and even though i am above average i still get smashed. Year 1 we could play together.

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      • bump

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      • Yeah I hate SBMM. At first I didn't why people were complaining about it. But the last few months my game really started improving, went from a .6 KD in clash to now about a 1.0. This last Iron Banner something changed in who I was matched with. My connection started to become crap as I keep yellow barring now and out of nowhere I'm matched with sweaties. I don't mind the challenge but at least give me a fair shot and not kill my connection on top of putting me in with try hards that are scared to engage without a MIDA and Sniper. It's honestly making me second guess getting rise of iron. I don't enjoy the crucible any longer.

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        • This. SBMM is horrible. And the justification for it is severely flawed.

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        • Dude I feel ya pain....I really do. I'm no God at PvP either but I've recently turned my fortunes around by doing a few simple things. I hope this will help: 1) Watch other players....see what they do. Titans rush in like battery rams while hunters kinda hang back a bit. I used to "rush" but I am now more cautious in my game play. I don't kill as many players (compaired to others) but I do end up with better (often positive) K/D ratios. 2) Use guns your comfortable with. I'm no good with shotties so I run a sniper as my special unless it's a small map. I take notice of the guns people like to use - Mida, 1000 yard head buster, malok, confluence....you know...popular (some say 'scrub') guns. I used to use a Soulstealers claw but when I changed to Mida the effects were almost immediate. 3) spec your build to your style. Dump as many points into strenght if your a ram player, or intellect if your keen on getting supers fast. Discipline if your running grenades and such in tandem with exotic armour that assist grenade regeneration ect. 4) ask your mates for tips, tricks and build specs. If they're true pals they'll happily pass on what they know. I was always a rotten PvP player....well below the 0.60 rate. Still have the occasional dodgy game but I've improved to hit positives more often than not. Yeah it's frustrating...but just stick with it. Buddy I'd happily lose 100 games with you if it meant I could build you up to be a kickass PvP player. I don't really give a fig about KD ratios, rewards or bragging rights. It's all just a bit of fun. Any hoo...good luck and hope things get better.

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        • Buy a lag switch off ebay.

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        • The worst is rift. You get a hard draw and it goes like this 1) enemy immediately encircles spark. 2 they kill half of your guys. You can't get close enough to see the spark 3. They grab spark and your team runs to defend 4. They freight train in, ignite spark and blow up 2-3 guys in the process 5. Repeat over and over 6. Narrator chastises you for not playing your best 7. Breaking up teams 8. You fly in in progress with no super down 3000 pts and everyone just picked up heavy It's worse than trying to argue with my wife. No chance and you just take it in the front and back of the shorts

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        • Summon Cozmo!

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          • What if ur leader of the fire team? When I'm leader with my friends we tend to get mercied but when our least skilled friend is leader we usually win

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            • Not sure about whatever you are up to but PvP has been more entertaining for me with the new SBMM. I quit back in Dec due to IB being a lag-infested disaster. Normal crucible was just a wash out. My early days in y1 were shameful .3 kd but since SBMM I have gradually gone from .3 to .98 which says a lot about who I play with. Yes, I find it difficult to keep up with my friends who are top notch with 2+ kd but hey I take it on the chin and learn from them or leave them to their glory. It's a game! Unleas something better than SBMM comes out I don't agree with all of this however I do understand your frustration. Good luck!

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            • Make sure you are driving the bus bringing you into a match. My guys do a lot of PvP and myself or one other guy in my group are given the team lead as it truly does make a difference. When the great players are lead we get pummeled, when the "lesser" players are driving the matches are far more balanced with the group.

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            • Sbmm seems to stack the other team...constantly. I'll finish top on my team but lose big all the time. Post game I usually look at the stats of my team compared to the winning team and ON AVERAGE the other team has roughly 300 higer ELO. Every game I either get wrecked or I poop on the otber team. I haven't participated in a close game in months.

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            • They just need to remove SBMM. To not be able to play with friends because of this is pathetic.

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            • Agree with most here. I sucked when I started, bad, had to start realizing what all were doing, map knowledge is key. Also like some were saying. You be the group leader, and it should bring the light level and skill of opponents to an average. If your friends are all maxed and high k/d. Won't drop much, but will help. Find and follow at least 1 of your teammates, acknowledge what they are doing, and help by being the Guinea pig, or spray everyone and get assists to help your score. When a teammate pops a super, if yours is full also, wait til theirs is gone, avoid running over orbs they left, pop yours and give them their super back etc. I run around 1 k/d now little more on warlock. But after 8 months of playing( really only banner) I was still 0. So I sympathize. I watched my elite nephew, picked his brain on situations and counters, rest I picked up from my own mistakes, and the play of my teammates and the opposing team tactics. Good luck guardian. Get well

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            • That's why my friends don't play with me. They can't keep up. It's really stupid I can't play a multi-player game with my friends because they can't even have fun when they struggle for a 1.0 with me. They seemed to miss that factor when sbmm was implemented.

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              • If you need help with your crucible game, check out True Vanguard on YouTube. Seriously. I used to get my ass kicked every single game until recently, I've been watching and studying his gameplay as well as his tutorials. Since then (like, the last two or three weeks or so) unless I'm messing around for fun or get matched with crazy good people, I've been topping the Rumble list on a regular basis with 1.5, 2+, and 3+ KDR games, and even three 5+ KDR games! Even earned my Chaperone and got three Phantom medals legit, which I thought was a good accomplishment for me lol. Start by playing Rumble or Skirmish. 6v6 really isn't the best place to develop 1v1 skill, since you don't really get into a 1-on-1 very often. One of the best things you can do is play a couple of games, record that gameplay and watch it. Notice what you're doing wrong, and think strategically how you could have gone about this situation any better. If you don't have a capture card, I know PS4 can record 15 minutes of play, and the Xbox I think is 5 minutes(?). But just attack certain situations with your head screwed on straight, so to speak. Don't charge headlong into 1v2 or more, try to make all your encounters 1v1 by cutting off other opponents' sight lines to you and pulling opponents into choke points. Don't challenge the shotgun in it's own environment if you don't have a shotgun. Don't challenge the sniper lane if you don't have a long range weapon. You want to play to your strengths, not everyone else's. Also, stay alive as much as possible. If an encounter goes south and you're given the opportunity to run away, do it. There will be another fight, another opportunity for a kill, but you want to try and deny the kill for whomever has the advantage on you. Maybe in fleeing you can get them to chase you, which instantly puts you at the advantage because you then can decide when you want to fight them again by pulling them into whatever room you feel comfortable engaging them in. I hope this helps. I obviously don't claim to know everything, and you'll get far more tips and strats from TV's channel, but for real go check him out. It will take some practice, but it'll also make a night and day difference.

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                • This is me! I don't avoid my more skilled friends but I am always at the bottom.

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                • Bungie's SBMM is a failure. Bungie's decision to not remove it, is pure amateurism.

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                  • Every match i play is the same. Beginning of a match my shots are registered and I'm on top of the board. After a few minutes my shots are not registered and i die faster. So i change my playing style to camping.

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                  • I'm not defending sbmm but surely there is a higher chance of getting ruined by a top tier player without it .

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                    • My friend is also awful at PvP, on any game for that matter. You aren't alone!

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                    • Today, Elimination was enjoyable. I win some and lost some. That's the matchmaking they need in Trials. I may never go flawless but I would love to be able to compete. Right now that is not the case.

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                    • I'm sorry to say this but... You just need to git gud , if you become better at the game you can play with your friends and even help them , just find a weapon which suits your play style and go , also you can test out any weapon you want in private matches :)

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                      • Its not really SBMM. Think of it this way, each person has a point based their skill from 1-15. 15 being highly skilled and 1 being lowly skilled. Say youre a 15 and the other team adds up to 24 (Each person has a skill of 4). The rest of your team then is going to have an average of around 2. This is why its so unbalanced because it really only balances the team instead of the players. At least this is how it seems to me.

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