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Edited by PoundLovesYou: 8/31/2016 1:27:28 PM
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A bad PvPer's experience/take on SBMM - the built in system meant to help players like me...

[i]UPDATE: I just want to thank everyone for contributing to this conversation and for sharing their own experiences and knowledge. I have learned a ton already, and am glad that our community can have constructive, open conversations like this. I just want to say that I am doing my best to keep up with replies; however, I am in very poor health and it is very hard to maintain the pace that this conversation has. Please know that I will read everything as quickly as I can, but I encourage all of you to continue sharing and offering input actively, as it is truly a great thing for us to come together and talk about the game we love and dedicate much of our time and energy to. Thank you all.[/i] I don't really know why I am posting this, but after three games today with a k/d of below 0.30, I have lost all shame and dignity. A lot of people think that SBMM (skill-based matchmaking) only hurts the most talented players, as it pits them against other very skilled players, making every match a chore and ultra "sweaty." BUT... I am a lower-skilled PvP player, and I have come to realize that SBMM is really hurting my Destiny experience as well. The thing is, my best friends are all quite skilled in the Crucible, so, it hit me today in a bout of loneliness that I was avoiding my friends, because: If I play with a group of my friends, their great stats are a major matchmaking factor used when finding opponents for us to play against. That said, playing with my very best friends ultimately means a few things: I will get destroyed. (And) We are likely to lose when I go 2 and 15 and single-handedly cost my team of friends the game. So, as a result, i have been avoiding doing my favorite thing--playing Destiny PvP--with my very closest friends, which SUCKS. This is hopefully a little food for thought for those in support of SBMM to unsuccessfully make playing crucible as a lesser-skilled player more enjoyable (i.e. easier). Sorry for the lengthiness.

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  • Edited by BLWigglyAkA: 8/31/2016 1:10:22 PM
    I'm for sbmm..... and I believe they should place this in trials too. Let every one play on their level

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    • Edited by NYDIBS: 8/31/2016 12:05:20 PM
      I don't get people that complain about this. if you are that bad, stop rushing solo, find your team and stick with them equip mida and a shotgun or uni and a sniper. pick off people from far away, run if you have to, and protect yourself from rushers with that shotgun. strategically place your grenades I mean if I had to and wanted to, I could probably die 5 or less times a match by playing cowardly tldr: if you can't win with skill, learn to play strategically

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      • Dead on. A game that says you MUST team up if you want to experience it fully and clearly it causes players to get drug in way over their head in many cases. It is a stupid system.

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        • I totally agree with you that SBMM sucks, and I'm sorry that you have to deal with it as well. I keep seeing people who say that it's not SBMM and that it's lag instead, but lag doesn't happen consistently all the time. At least in 3v3 it doesn't. So don't believe people when they say "it's not SBMM, it's p2p lag!" No offense to them, but if I can deal with having almost the worst Internet available, a wireless connection, and I'm still ok, then there shouldn't really be an excuse other than the fact that, as you said, SBMM is matching you with much better players. You shouldn't be forced to "git gud" just to be able to play with your friends.

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        • sorry to hear about your frustration. I personally would rather see a heavier connection-based match making, but I understand why some sort of SBMM is needed. I'm not a great PvP player, but my advice is to continue playing with your group of friends. Try to stick with at least 1 or 2 other team members, but let them lead the way. You'll get some clean up kills from them, and may even steal a few. If you die and respawn away from the team, I'd suggest staying on the outer edges of the map until you find a teammate to run with. Play really conservative if you have to until getting more and more comfortable. If you end up getting only 6 kills, but limit your deaths to just 5, that's fine. You wont be feeding the enemy team a lot of deaths and feeling guilty for costing your friends the match.

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          • I just don't like SBMM because to get people at other skill levels to match they need to find people, probably from different countries, and match them up. Literally if the PS4 and Xbox1 bundled a cheap 5-10 ft Ethernet cable this problem wouldn't happen! (Or it might happen WAY less)

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          • You know training against better people makes you better right? Play with your friends. You probably don't care about getting a bad kd so it wouldn't hurt.

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            • This is why i stopped playing with my old clan. They have a terrible time playing with me because of sbmm. After numerous times of them lieing to me about wanting to play with me I pretty much gave up and left the clan thing. They call playing crucible by themselves as "baby crucible." I still play with them every now and then though

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              • It's weird. Not sure how matchmaking is setup but I have a friend I play with quite often and is lessor skilled in pvp. What I notice is if he is the fire team leader, fire team is just the two of us, matches are easier for me. If I am fire team leader matches are similar for me when I queue solo and he does worse. This was also true when I play with another friend who is much better than me. Maybe I'm just tripping but this seems to be fairly consistent. I would play with friends any way.

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                • Bump

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                • I'm in the same boat but the opposite of you op, bungie doesn't want you having friends of different skill levels.

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                • Play with your friends bro, even if your having a hard time. Play the vanguard role hang just a bit back watch their movement, listen for call outs, and ask what they would like you to do. As your awareness goes up, map knowledge and gun skill goes up you'll start contributing more and more. Playing in a fireteam is the best way to improve especially if they are better players. That moment you snipe a streamer or outgun the top player on the opposing team will make it all worth it even if it's your only kill.

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                  • Just take fireteam leader. Teams matchmake to fire team leader.

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                    • I agree with this post. SBMM hurts fireteams with wide skill levels. They need to make separate ranked matchmaking playlists so teams that.want to have fun can go in and play on CBMM lists.

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                    • I think this is what these kind of post should be like. Just honest observations. I actually play crucible with my girlfriend. I feel like I'm the best player ever but she gets wrecked. I mean I'm having fun but it sucks for her. When she's on her own she does just fine keeping like a 1.0 on avg. But I'm not sure what they could do to even this out. Even if you avarge the stats between the team and match off that it would be to much for the bottom guy on the team and to easy for the top guy.

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                    • I am not buying ROI due to SBMM. I'm sure they don't care about 1 customer but the other team being full of red bars with god mode really makes you not want to play this game.

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                    • Good post. Thanks for sharing your perspective.

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                    • Sbmm does not work well with fireteams where there is a big discrepancy in skill level but cbmm is screwed by fireteams as well I have a reasonable-sized group of friends who regularly play Destiny but I still play most of my pvp solo. No one complains if I am consistently at the bottom of the team but I feel I am letting the team down. I still play in fireteams where there are players closer to my skill level but I usually drop out if there are way above - we may win almost every match but it's not enjoyable for me I also played pvp (solo only) at the start of year 1 and (for a player like me) it was a hell of a lot worse - there were no conditions where I could have a semi-decent game or even stay alive long enough to learn maps / skills so I quit pvp altogether. So I prefer the current system where I am slowly improving (and I'm talking about my Elo / reaction / map awareness improving over the last few months not my kd) Cbmm is also screwed by fireteams: A group of good players in cbmm will be virtually unbeatable because they are highly unlikely to be matched against a group of similar skill A fireteam which includes people from different continents can introduce lag into games because of the poor connection between them. This means red bar gods in cbmm

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                    • i am a very low skilled pvp player too. SBMM or not, no matter what matchmaking algorithm is used, you can only be matched with the players who are playing at that moment you click to start a match. the thing is, its gonna sound like i am complaining but i really am not. however, there is hardly any "casual or below" skilled players in the crucible right now. sweaties are pretty much all that remain until rise of iron, so the crucible is pretty rough. its going to get even worse when trials goes on hiatus for a few weeks... the streamers, tryhards, amd sweaty folks will have nothing else to do but join us filthy casuals in the regular crucible and slaughter us all while they laugh at all of us. oh well. thank goodness wins arent required for rep. i am just in it for the faction rep so i can get my final exotic in the game from FWC. might get a god roll eyasluna. might get more precious grimoire 😍 regardless, im still gonna be playing though 😊😊😊

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                    • I'm so sorry for you. This actually makes me sad. Ive kinda been on the opposite end of that spectrum. Some friends dont wana play with me because they know they will do bad.

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                    • Well problem solved. Private matches coming. Now you can match yourself up against others.

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                    • You're not as bad as you make it seem try some new tactics out run weapons you don't normally run go back to your original starter sub class for awhile until you regain that feel with your characters. It works trust me

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                    • Just play with ur friends dude if they die that isn't your fault it's there's.

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                    • You're talking as if SBMM is in the game, it's not.

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                      • I'm around a 1.15 average if you average out my three characters. I see the same players quite often. The higher KD players complain about it, but us 'regulars' face the same issue.

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                      • http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/moobz82/video/21046920 http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/moobz82/video/21083519 This is why i hate SBMM sometimes!

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