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3/24/2017 3:10:13 PM
25
So much of this post. Y1 was flawed, the story was terrible, but there was so many fun things to do we just didn't care.
On reset day, we were stoked to get our nightfalls done, no matter how hard they were. Then we wanted to do our heroic strikes x3 (guaranteed strange coins - not for marks) for coins for Xur. Then, if we had the people online, we would focus on raids. If not, we would raid throughout the week.
On a daily basis, we would do our bounties - either AFTER we did all our good stuff, or before, when we were waiting for people to get online. Bounties had a better purpose - you needed to do them to unlock nodes on your weapons and armor.
And many disagree, but I didn't even mind farming planet materials to upgrade gear. Boring? Maybe, but you could get all the mats you needed within 10-20 minutes if you familiarized yourself with all the spawn points, and I'd much rather do that then have to farm strikes trying to get a specific gun to drop. And I remember having fun using the Destiny tracker to track public events to try to earn extra upgrade materials. When was the last time ANYONE did that?
The endgame rewards were MUCH better and worth chasing after. Exotics were harder to get, but were also much stronger and made a bigger difference. By the time you did the endgame multiple times, you FELT like you were much stronger than anything else out there - at least until the next DLC hit. And then you got put back in your place again - for a while.
Y2 just sapped all the fun away from the game. Basically "streamlined" it for those who didn't have time to play this game like a career- but wanted to get everything everyone else had anyways. Streamlined is just a euphemism for making content optional or irrelevant by way of watering down the rewards.
Was some of Y1's gameplay a little tedious or boring? Maybe, but you expect to have to do some farming in a game like this. When I want to enchant stuff or craft stuff in Skyrim, I have to gather materials. When I want to make ANY item in Warframe, I need to gather parts or materials. Some level of farming is just expected. Not EVERYTHING in the game is going to be exciting as running the raid - but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be part of the game.
I think a lot of people complained about Y1, but nobody fully appreciated what we really had: a good foundation for the game that was fundamentally FUN to play in spite of all its flaws. And while Bungie started working on fixing a lot of the storyline flaws in TTK, they also started to erode the foundation that made the game fun in the first place, which is why I stopped playing. I decided purchasing new content just wasn't worth it. I was content to play Y2 as long as content was free, but I came to the conclusion that after a certain point, Destiny wasn't worth the investment it would take to continue playing it.
I'm truly hoping that Destiny 2 looks more like Y1 than it does Y2.
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I 100% agree with you. Things in Y1 weren't that bad. The story needed a lot of work but everything else was so much fun. Even grinding for mats was okay. Now ppl don't really have a reason to do patrols unless a quest takes them there. My favorite part about Y1 was getting specific exotics to drop at the end of a pvp match. Now you just get an exotic engram.
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Agreed although I really hated farming materials and other problems in the game, I felt like these problems should've been fixed while everything else should just be kept alone. Instead rather than fixing the problems, they created more problems and fixed them half way. Then they created even more problems.
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Agreed. I speant 800 hours in year 1 alone. Year 2 and 3 combined hasn't even reached that number.
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Bump, I appreciate people who can positively criticize a game they enjoyed
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So true!
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Very well put and I agree 100%. Destiny Y1 and part of Y2 was a time I played to get better equipment and face challenges. After that and now I play to pass time and talk to friends. I hope D2 is more challenge than just pass the time.
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Same here, except my list dropped from 85 to 5! The rest, including my boys stopped last August! I'm the last, and do not hope for D2. Just see SSDD again...
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Bump. Exactly this
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I disagree about the streamlining being a bad thing. As father of 3 with a full time job I liked the fact that I could still keep up with my friends and not fall so far behind. 3 of coins were a little too much, I actually enjoyed getting my exotics from nightfall and raids, but I guess they helped some people out.
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[quote]I disagree about the streamlining being a bad thing. As father of 3 with a full time job I liked the fact that I could still keep up with my friends and not fall so far behind. 3 of coins were a little too much, I actually enjoyed getting my exotics from nightfall and raids, but I guess they helped some people out.[/quote] I understand that, but this is why its actually more important to have a group of players/friends who understand your schedule. Many in my group were in the same situation and we worked to accomodate them. If one fell behind, we'd help them catch up. It's just that simple. What's bad about streamlining is that it eliminates relevant content for everyone else. I'm sure it wouldn't excite you to log on and have to farm, but if you have friends who are online, you can go farm later. And if nobody's online, do your farming then. But what they did in Y2 was pretty much narrow down your daily PVE activities to heroic strikes, MAYBE come CoO or Archons Forge, and PVP. That made the game so boring and tedious that it just wasn't fun. I loved having a multitude of different activities that were all equally important to our progression. And as I previously stated: falling behind wouldn't be such a big deal if they remove the artificial time barriers we are up against where everything goes irrelevant at the drop of each DLC. The infusion system did that, so I don't see why everything else they did to the game was necessary.
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I have to agree with the streamlining being a poor element. In particular, Three of Coins giving Exotics and Motes of Light graning experience that Bounties used to give. These two things, along with just more mediocre loot, made things boring and bland. We got "more", but only in a sense of quantity, not quality. Exotics don't feel great to get, Bounties feel useless, and leveling up a gun is just pressing a button in the inventory. On the other hand, Destiny needed to be more accessible, and TTK brought that. It was too grindy and hardcore in Year 1 for many people, and was heavily criticized when the game was released. Bungie just need to find a good middle ground of making the game accessible up to a point, probably Nightfalls and Raids. Give them some chances to dip their toes in the water, but really reward those who put in the time and effort.
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[quote] On the other hand, Destiny needed to be more accessible, and TTK brought that. It was too grindy and hardcore in Year 1 for many people, and was heavily criticized when the game was released.[/quote] I was talking about this very point with my clan last night. The thing about Y1 that made it so unfriendly wasn't the grind. The grind was good, particularly because you were grinding for things that made a difference. What made it bad was the fact that you were always under an artificial time crunch because EVERYTHING would go obsolete with the drop of the next DLC - meaning you simply couldn't play at your own pace or you would be left behind. Infusion solved a lot of that problem. Everything else they did in Y2 wasn't really necessary IMO.
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[quote] The thing about Y1 that made it so unfriendly wasn't the grind. The grind was good, particularly because you were grinding for things that made a difference.[/quote] The endgame grind, I will agree, was fine as it was. The main grind that turned people away was getting for 20 to 25-26 in Vanilla. That transitioning point form story to endgame was painful; TTK had a much better Light curve in that transitional area. It still took some grinding, but you felt like you actually made progress. This is the kind of accessibility that I approve of, where casuals can make progress slowly and more hardcore players can make it quickly. Give them a chance to get interested in the endgame and maybe become a hardcore player if they so wish, or let them get to some endgame fun after a long time playing.
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[quote] The endgame grind, I will agree, was fine as it was. The main grind that turned people away was getting for 20 to 25-26 in Vanilla. That transitioning point form story to endgame was painful; TTK had a much better Light curve in that transitional area. It still took some grinding, but you felt like you actually made progress.[/quote] I agree, the strikes did a really poor job of preparing you for taking on the endgame phase. That was an issue, but I don't think they needed to make the game easy-mode the way they did in Y2. The mark system would have worked better in Y1 to get vendor gear than the commendation system did in Y1/Vanilla. It also created a catch 22 wherein you had to raid to progress, but you had to progress to raid. That wasn't cool either, but like I said, they just went way too far the other direction in Y2. [quote]This is the kind of accessibility that I approve of, where casuals can make progress slowly and more hardcore players can make it quickly. Give them a chance to get interested in the endgame and maybe become a hardcore player if they so wish, or let them get to some endgame fun after a long time playing.[/quote] I actually don't object to people getting to max light outside of the raid. Its the fact that you can get all of the games best gear without having to step foot INTO the raid or nightfall that I object to. If you do the hardest content in the game, you should get the best rewards. But too much of the games best stuff was questified and the endgame gear was watered down to the point that it was really undesirable compared to most of the strike specific gear. This basically made Strikes and PVP the only relevant activities in Y2, which is why I tapered my play in Y2 and ultimately quit buying content.
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Well damn, I can't argue with you anymore. Quit being so sensible and coherent! Jokes aside, I do love debates like this. We started out with stating opposing views/opinions and worked our way to a conclusion. I agree on you with everything now, and this has tempered some of my thoughts, so thanks for the insight. To take your last two issues, economy and the best rewards, I think Bungie is moving in a better direction with them. Economy needs to just be reworked in D2, but has been improved upon as the game has progressed. And the best looking (or craziest looking) gear will be coming only from raids after Age of Triumph launches. Might be too late for Destiny, but it signals a philosophy change that could be influential in D2.
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[quote]And the best looking (or craziest looking) gear will be coming only from raids after Age of Triumph launches. [/quote] This is where we likely disagree. I don't think any of the AoT gear looks all that appealing. Nothing in Y2 looks as good to me as my IB gear I got early on in Y2. Too much bells and whistles, too much bling, and you just start to look like a joke. Think of a Harley Motorcycle with spinners LOL. It's just ridiculous. I also don't like the idea of mainly cosmetic gear for doing the hardest stuff in the game. Cosmetics are good, but you need something in addition to that, something that will reduce your grind in other phases. This is why elemental primaries were such a great reward in Y1. They reduced grind without harming PVP balance in the slightest. But you need more than great primary weapons to chase as treasures because people will then only do the raids for the primary weapons. The raids need more weapons like OG Black Hammer and Corrective measure. Weapons that were still top of their class for a while. Even stuff that are as powerful as G-horn should arguably only come from the raids and nightfall, since they aren't NECESSARY to do all the content in the game, but they do reduce grind. And that has been my point. RoI's raid gear may have been an improvement over Kings Fall, but the gear itself is only on par with everything available outside of the raid. And when your rewards are equally as good outside of the raid as they are inside the raid, you literally have NO incentive to do anything harder (i.e., no incentive to do the raid).
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[quote]This is where we likely disagree.... too much bells and whistles, too much bling, and you just start to look like a joke. Think of a Harley Motorcycle with spinners LOL. It's just ridiculous.[/quote] But you did agree with me that it was crazy. Gotcha! [quote]I also don't like the idea of mainly cosmetic gear for doing the hardest stuff in the game.[/quote] Agreed, and I hope it won't be that way moving forwards. Just stating that, for now, you can't get such wild gear from anywhere else but the Raids. I do hope that D2 has some great Raid rewards that make people go back and raid every week to get them. Year 1 got that part spot-on.
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[quote] Agreed, and I hope it won't be that way moving forwards. Just stating that, for now, you can't get such wild gear from anywhere else but the Raids. I do hope that D2 has some great Raid rewards that make people go back and raid every week to get them. Year 1 got that part spot-on.[/quote] Exactly. I played to raid in Y1. Over 300+ raid completions between VoG and CE. Only 16 completions of KF. THAT should tell you everything you need to know about what is wrong with Y2. No incentive to raid. The rewards were utter crap, which completely killed any desire to raid. We play for fun, sure, but we also need good rewards to chase after, and a reason to replay the raids over and over again. If not, then it becomes more of a game of Strikes and PVP, and a whole lot of nothing else. I've played that game. It's called Y2. And it's boring.
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Year ones grind also created rifts between players. Forever 29 and forever 31 were a real pain in the ass.
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Forever 31 was a thing? Crota was so generous that I had all my characters to level 32 within 6 weeks. I understand it can be frustrating to feel stuck at a certain level, but even though I was in #forever 29, I was still able to get a TON of sweet loot along the way. Got FB and Corrective Measure for all 3 chars, basically at least 1 of every raid gun except foil and timepiece, Got an OG Suros and a Hardlight. I don't blame the grind for creating the rift though. I blame how Destiny was set up. You were always in an artificial time crunch because new DLC would render everything irrelevant so quickly that people who played at their own pace got left behind. Infusion solved TWO issues because it removed the artificial time constraints AND it allowed things to always carry forward. So again, I don't think the rest of what they did in Y2 was necessary.
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What actually solved this issue was house of wolves and the etheric light system. That was the first time I was able to hit max lvl, though that was also when I switched to Xbox from ps4 and started playing with some friends from work and found my first clan.
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But that was a temporary solution because EL wasn't carried forward. I understand your point, but I think infusion was a better long-term solution than EL. Although I will say that infusion isn't even my preferred progression system. I would much prefer having a purely exp-based or mote-infusion system instead.
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Agree, IMO light system never had to born, it was introduced to extend the life of the game but at this point is totally useless. Once you get the right lvl (now 40) you should equip any piece of armor/weapon. No need for infusion. Same with 3oC, do you remember that video from E3 when they killed a mini boss and drop a Gjallarhorn? That should be introduced since day 1. Looking for specific loot or a chance for an exotic? Go to patrol and farm some mini bosses for their unique drop and/or a possible exotic. Again same with the loot in strikes, they always should give us a chance for drop... now we need lucky to get the strike we are looking for, lucky for keys drops, lucky for that armor/weapon we are looking for and lucky with the right perks... that's no funny in any way. I'm pretty bored with all the changes they introduced in this last 2 years. They changed their vision completly from the main idea and lost in the darkness... If D2 takes the same path, I'm out. They sell us a "MMO" with open world idea... never happend. Gearbox did something similar with Aliens, they show a game and then sold "another" game. Why Bungie was not sued? Because don't have competence at that time?? No one know.
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Tottaly agree with you
