Sadly my post was too big for me to edit this in: Edit: Obviously I do not speak for everyone in the community in my reply to the OP. There are people who enjoyed the grind. There are people who enjoyed the what I dub "vicious" RNG. A good example is to look at JRPGs. In the East they often have what Americans call tedious leveling systems, and overly complex crafting systems. Hell it took 30 minutes to make 1 cup of Grape Juice in FF11. They generally enjoy those grinds however. Over here...not so much. Warframe I admit boggles me... It seems to be both loved & hated for its grind. [i]And Warframes grinds makes me want to hurt myself for even considering to tough it out.... Never has a PSN card looked so tempting...[/i] [u]Edit on Raids:[/u] Obviously not everyone was excluded. But I am speaking more on the behalf of the silent majority (not all of them of course). [u]We must constantly remind ourselves that only 10-15% of the game population actually visits these forums & uses 3rd party websites (LFG, 100, Reddit, etc...)[/u] Just think back to how many folks would join & immediately be kicked because they didn't have Gjallarhorn. All the complaint posts. As I witnessed many people in Yr1 come & go. With the mass exodus in the 4th quarter of HoW being the eyeopener that prompted Bungie to buckle down on TTK. I remember all the emails Bungie sent out advertising how TTK had "reinvented" the game. "Come back to Destiny!" emails, ads, offers. All the interviews they did to publically get the word out that the game had changed. That said, lets not forget that Gjally was purposefully left out of Yr2 due to the events of Yr1 & when it returned they made it almost impossible to miss out on. That speaks volumes if you think about it. Final Edit: Year 1 was not atrocious. But it was extremely flawed, both from the development side & community side. It had its ups & downs. Etheric Light for example was the first step to Infusion. Definitely a pro. Etheric light however met its ending because even for PoE, folks excluded others (Remember all the complaint threads) so a more flexible system was implemented. I will agree that Destiny gets stale after you hit the cap & get all the gear you desire. That is the case with all MMOs. (Don't say: Destiny is MMO-Light, etc. It borrows from the formula & there is no borrowing. You are, or you aren't. This game leans too heavily on the "You are" side. One of the many things that has hurt it. No sense of direction.) Hell that is the case with all games. Once you clear endgame there is nothing else. Destiny just needed a steady stream of content in the end to keep folks going. Which Bungie was not prepared for.