I'll start this by stating that I know this will/might cause much ire in this Community (there isn't a lot of discussion topics that don't...), but this is my opinion based off of what was seen in the Destiny 2 "Game Play Reveal".
I'm not on any "hype train" as that doesn't make much sense to me. I understand being excited about upcoming games, but "hype trains" are another problematic level of excitement that usually causes a person to abandon the more intellectual side of their reasoning, and gloss over what would normally be very glaring issues, while raising expectations to levels impossible for any Developer to attain.
I'd rather be critical, avoid the "hype train", and get an "uncolored" view of the game for what it really is; rather than board the hype train, build up D2 to absolutely unattainable levels of expectation that no developer on the planet could ever hope to achieve, then be let down when the game cannot live up to the nigh-Godlike hype that Bungie sycophants are currently doing.
In that regard, I was highly unimpressed with what was shown. An hour long "Game Play Premier" presentation consisting of a total of ten minutes of Game Play.
- What game play [i]was shown[/i] looked exactly like the current Destiny. Nothing alludes to expanding the Player tool-set. Nothing was shown that improves upon the game play of D1, just more of the same-old-same-old.
- The map has more icons, but looks no larger than any of the current areas of exploration in D1.
- Sure there's "Quests" to unlock new areas, but how long before you're retreading even those areas, but in a different direction?
- Patrol looks like it will be more of the same boring "kill this' or "fetch Quests" that are so yawn-inducing in D1.
- No improvement in the paltry, bare-bones character progression system from D1. You will almost literally be capped just as low as and just as quickly as you were in D1.
- D1 = 4 planets.
- D2 = 4 Planets with one of those you're already exploring. So, less content there.
- 1 Raid
- D1 had three Strikes at launch.
- D2 has [b]'A' Strike[/b] (straight how the Bungie Rep said it) and if my math serves me correctly, that's less than D1 had at launch.
- D1 had six sub-Classes at launch. Nine when D1 finished (after three years...)
- D2 has three sub-Classes (because Bungie even said in the presentation, "when you lose your Light, you lose your Powers, Progress, sub-Classes, everything; and you have to earn it back" leaving you at only the three sub-Classes shown), which is paltry in a game that's supposed to be "more expansive" than the original. You know, kinda the whole point of a "sequel".
- Bungie found a way (and this is pretty damn impressive for all the wrong reasons) to not only take away absolutely everything you did in D1 (via utilizing the cheapest, most played-out story cop-out in storytelling history), but give you [b]less than[/b] you had in the beginning of D1. Truly an impressive and new way to screw over your fan base, Bungie.
- And... there's a whole host of other issues I saw; but I'm just old and tired, and really don't have the rage left to go into it in depth.
So, yeah.
I'm highly unimpressed with what was shown, and when the game and "reveal" are looked at without having "hype-tinted-goggles" on, there is nothing (absolutely nothing) that tells me that this should be a standalone game.
Literally everything Bungie has shown/said, leads me to believe that D2 should only have ever been a $40 USD digital Expansion for D1.
And that's just the opinion of a guy who's been gaming for 30+ years, and has been deeply involved in the MMORPG Genre for 20+ years.
(Despite what Bungie says and how much they want to stay away from the accronym, they've created an MMOFPS. And even MMO publications and other Genre professionals agree thaqt this is exactly what Bungie has done.) It's an MMOFPS, get over it. And it's a shitty one at that, IMO.
Edit = Additional thought.
I've been thinking on what I've said here. And I have to say, I hope Bungie does indeed prove me wrong.
I hope Bungie works Destiny 2 with all of the design-love that they can muster, and I deeply hope that they can prove every observation I've made above to be completely false and overblown.
- I [i]want[/i] Bungie to create truly expansive areas to explore.
- I [i]want[/i] Bungie to create a true sense of randomness in the Questing and Daily Activities, so that D2 [i]doesn't[/i] seem like I'm covering already trodden ground for the hundredth time.
- I [i]want[/i] Bungie to create deep, engagin character customization and character leveling so that it feels like I'm [i]actually building[/i] a Legend.
In short, [i]I want[/i] Bungie to create the MMOFPS masterpiece that Destiny 1 was supposed to be, but Bungie bungled all across the three years of Destny 1's lifespan. I don't [i]want[/i] to be "spot on" with my observations above. Not in any way.
I want to be able to purchase this game, and know that it has all the epic qualities that it has the promise to be. I want to be able to dive into this game and get the old Guild back together and having fun like we did through out Destiny years 1 & 2.
I want to be able to play-test/Beta test/purchase Destiny 2, play it, and be able to say "Yep, you really nailed it this time, Bungie. Well done on a finely crafted, deep, engaging MMOFPS."
I [i]desperately want[/i] for Destiny 2 to be all of those things and more.
I just have that gut feeling that it won't be any of those things.
But only time will tell. Only Bungie can make those decisions and changes. And there's a few scant months this summer and leading into this fall, where all of that is possible.
So, onus is on you Bungie. You have a former Destiny player here who desperately wants to regain their trust in you as a developer, as well as a severely disappointed fan and decades long Gamer and MMO enthusiast/fanatic.
"The ball is in your court" as the saying goes. It's time for you to show us whether or not you intend to play.
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You complained about non-objective praise, then went on to criticise using non-objective statements yourself. Most of this is wrong. Let's go. [quote]- What game play [i]was shown[/i] looked exactly like the current Destiny. Nothing alludes to expanding the Player tool-set. Nothing was shown that improves upon the game play of D1, just more of the same-old-same-old.[/quote] Nothing expands the tool set? I saw [b]three[/b] new weapon types. Three new subclasses. A magnificent change to how loadouts work. All new weapon and armour designs. Nothing improves upon the gameplay? Proper open world. Dungeons. Ingame quests. Storytelling. No need to go to orbit. Proper rpg style hub. Same old? Yeah, right. [quote]- The map has more icons, but looks no larger than any of the current areas of exploration in D1.[/quote] They explicitly said the new areas are larger than anything they've designed prior. [quote]- Sure there's "Quests" to unlock new areas, but how long before you're retreading even those areas, but in a different direction?[/quote] Speculation. Not objective. [quote]- Patrol looks like it will be more of the same boring "kill this' or "fetch Quests" that are so yawn-inducing in D1.[/quote] You have no reason to think this, other than again speculation. [quote]- No improvement in the paltry, bare-bones character progression system from D1. You will almost literally be capped just as low as and just as quickly as you were in D1.[/quote] And again. Jesus... [quote]- D1 = 4 planets. - D2 = 4 Planets with one of those you're already exploring. So, less content there.[/quote] [b]Equal[/b]. Mathematise better. [quote]- 1 Raid[/quote] As D1. [quote]- D1 had three Strikes at launch. - D2 has [b]'A' Strike[/b] (straight how the Bungie Rep said it) and if my math serves me correctly, that's less than D1 had at launch.[/quote] They only mentioned one. And if memory serves, it was in reference to what they'd be playing there and then. [quote]- D1 had six sub-Classes at launch. Nine when D1 finished (after three years...) - D2 has three sub-Classes (because Bungie even said in the presentation, "when you lose your Light, you lose your Powers, Progress, sub-Classes, everything; and you have to earn it back" leaving you at only the three sub-Classes shown), which is paltry in a game that's supposed to be "more expansive" than the original. You know, kinda the whole point of a "sequel".[/quote] "Earn them back." It's like you're not even reading what you're writing - and disagreeing with yourself! [quote]- Bungie found a way (and this is pretty damn impressive for all the wrong reasons) to not only take away absolutely everything you did in D1 (via utilizing the cheapest, most played-out story cop-out in storytelling history), but give you [b]less than[/b] you had in the beginning of D1. Truly an impressive and new way to screw over your fan base, Bungie.[/quote] Wrong, for all the reasons above. Plus, the fact that we will have more frequent content updates than we have now. [quote]- And... there's a whole host of other issues I saw; but I'm just old and tired, and really don't have the rage left to go into it in depth.[/quote] Other? Or are you going to now start listing actually existing issues? Also - rage. Non-objective again. *laughs hysterically*
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Destiny 2 has six subclasses at launch not three, Titan has striker and sentinel, hunter has arcstrider and gunslinger, and warlocker has dawnblade and voidwalker. The three available on the play floor were striker, gunslinger, and dawnblade.
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Just the fact it doesn't run dedicated servers is reason enough to not buy, after the all the sht going down right now. But the game isn't even out yet, jumping to conclusions is just as bad as hyping for trailers.
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If it was any other company then bungie it would be sued into the ground for this level of bullshit. Welcome to destiny 1.1 where they are still screwing you over
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My impression, the 1st story mission took all of 4 minutes to beat. It should take 30 minutes minimum. The Strike can be beat in 10 minutes. It should take 45 minutes minimum, especially if there's only 2 or 3 available at launch
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Careful, having an opinion only makes the "experts" come and try and change your mind.
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I'm sorry to break this to you, but even if you do want everything you have said here, Bungie isn't perfect. They can't fully satisfy everyone. That's why the community has so many conflicting opinions, because stuff like that spiraled out of control. That's why the Destiny community is called "toxic". Aside from that, I love and support your ideas.
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It's like Apple iPhone releases. We've put in the best screen ever in an iPhone. Oh wait, it's still running at 1080p while android has gone way past that years ago. Or how they've reintroduced a cable to attach your headphones...just like the old cellphones with the 2.5mm->3.5mm adapter.
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tl:dr Bungie needs to show us how the reward system works in Destiny 2. Lots of great sequels fail to find audiences because they have too much of the stank of the original. What really soured the Destiny experience for many players was underwhelming story missions and frustrating reward system. On PS4, less then 25% of players have the trophy for equipping a legendary or exotic in each gear slot. They might have loved the gameplay but they hit an RNG wall and quit out of frustration. As veteran players, we saw Bungie and greatly improve the reward system. It was long process that required Bungie to admit they made a lot of bad design decisions with vanilla Destiny. Now Bungie needs to show the rest of world how much the reward systgem has changed and how much Bungie has changed. For me personally, I'll never forget the sting of #forever29 and a year without a Gjallarhorn, and I'll believe Destiny 2 has a better reward system when I see it. Bungie has a few more months to show us.
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Preach
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I agree with most of your points as they are much the same as my own views. Only ... D2 is going to have 3 Moons (not planets) and the European Zone on Earth (which is a planet) Also what was shown was, Striker and Sentinel for titans, Poledancer and Gun slinger for Hunter and Dawn sword thing for warlock. I'm sure warlocks will get another class, but I haven't seen it. I would expect that Dawn sword thingey class is due for a nerf as its possibly too strong and a "go to" win button. yes I saw that this is a continuation of the same destiny we've been playing. Not an expansion or a sequel, as that would require some measure of improvement or increase. Also that the area of the strike was no bigger that an area of a raid. They can do areas that big even on last gen consoles. The 2x the size doesn't mean a damn thing. I don't know what the unit of measure is. still locked at 30FPS regardless of resolution is a nonsense since gears and halo can manage 60 FPS on an xbox one. The core gameplay was never the problem in Destiny, and I wonder why they chose to showcase the games strongest asset in the way they did. Makes me wonder if they are a one trick pony. NPCs in the game are cool, but they need to be more than just set pieces in a response to action. Cutscenes also need to expand the story, not just be action sequence cool explosion to snarky comment and back to gameplay. Also how does our character progress in the story of the game? What I saw our guardian is still being talked at, with ghost still doing all the talking. Is he just a spectator again watching the story from behind a pane of glass? I think Master Chief Had more lines than our Guardian. There also needs to me an actual story this time and they better have time to Explain this time. If this is a sequel the story needs to expand on the original Destiny Storyline, not just be like " the cabal turn off the water, then the guardians unstop the plumbing and like totally turn it back on, fade to black" They want to call it a Sequel, it needs to be judged as a sequel. Nothing I saw in the reveal trailer made me want to cancel my pre-order, but I really wasn't wowed or Hyped by it. I'll judge it on the beta, but if its just what we saw in the reveal then its a cancel from me.
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Edited by Ahhsenberg: 5/19/2017 9:54:26 PMThose are my thoughts as well, but put into a more positive fashion. Here's my overall take: [quote]A sequel should have more additions and less things that are DIRECTLY from the previous games - especially if it's a "shoot to loot" game that depends heavily on gear/sub-classes/mechanics. Why are there the same three classes to choose from? Not even one more added(it could easily be related to a new story/universe development)? Why give us the same subclasses, but with only one "new" ability? No new elements? Maybe ONE new weapon type(grenade launcher)? Similar weapons, otherwise? Similar gear? This entire thing looks like it's more of an expansion than a new game. Where's the new enemies? It's suspicious that we had all of the other races be involved in an expansion besides the Cabal... which is now the main focus of Destiny 2. You can't tell me that this doesn't look like an expansion for Destiny 1! ONE new raid?! Strikes, Nightfall, Trials, Patrols(slightly altered), and same format/planets for the story? This doesn't seem to remotely add anything to make it a sequel besides "Tower is gone and gotta go to a few different planets". Give me a break. Watch history repeat itself with the "Beta" being a repeat of what happened with the Destiny 1 "Alpha"/"Beta". Then watch history repeat itself again by having years worth of forced DLC/microtransactions drip fed to you. I'm amazed there hasn't been more protest about this. Are people this hopeful that things will get better this close to release(because they would've shown more to dazzle you on a "world's first reveal") or are you just blinded by da funz n l00t?[/quote]
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Its a DLC dressed up to look like a new game
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You got a few things wrong in there flat out. For example, we get 6 subclasses. Dawn Blade Voidwalker Striker Sentinel Poledancer Golden Gun
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What's funny is our powers we got during TTK, those don't even rely on the Traveler or the Light yet they pulled them out of the game in D2, so basically in D2 what we get is 3 subs, we gain 3 more, but what about the 3 others we got during TTK? Bungie is regressing hard asf, they made up lore and missions behind these powers yet they put a -blam!-ing George Lucas on their shit
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What I saw from the reveal got me excited to play the beta, which is what I expected to happen. From there I'll know whether I will get the game on launch, as I'll likely try to avoid more news to keep everything for launch day.
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Gameplay is what destiny is about, not pretty graphics. Without a controller, it's hard to get hyped.
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Destiny 2 looks pretty good so far, but there wasn't really anything that got me super hyped to get my hands on it. I'm not exactly unimpressed with what was revealed, there was just nothing game-changing that made a lasting impression on me. I want a big change in the Destiny formula. I hope story missions and strikes don't just info-dump as you load into them. I would like the story to be presented in a different way as you play, and not just by watching a ton of cinematics (I wanna play a game, not watch a movie).
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You have a very poor understanding of what you're saying it seems.
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Are you being serious are or you just dumb?
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[quote]And that's just the opinion of a guy who's been gaming for 30+ years, and has been deeply involved in the MMORPG Genre for 20+ years. (Despite what Bungie says and how much they want to stay away from the accronym, they've created an MMOFPS. And even MMO publications and other Genre professionals agree thaqt this is exactly what Bungie has done.) It's an MMOFPS, get over it. And it's a shitty one at that, IMO. In short, [i]I want[/i] Bungie to create the MMOFPS masterpiece that Destiny 1 was supposed to be, but Bungie bungled all across the three years of Destny 1's lifespan. ... I want to be able to play-test/Beta test/purchase Destiny 2, play it, and be able to say "Yep, you really nailed it this time, Bungie. Well done on a finely crafted, deep, engaging MMOFPS." ... a severely disappointed fan and decades long Gamer and MMO enthusiast/fanatic.[/quote] Here's your main issue: Destiny is most certainly not an MMO, in most shape and form. You've even said that the developer, you know the people who made it, say it's not an MMO. Because it's not. In what world is 6v6 crucible or a 6 person raid or a 12/16 (I forget exactly) social area, where you can only dance, point, wave, and sit down, "massive" and has "social interaction" which is central to MMOs? That's right none. And all lot of publications that don't develop Destiny called it one? Well, they didn't make the game, so they're mistaken. If they called a sports game, would you complain about it bring a bad sports game with only the ball in the tower with no goals? Most of the reason Destiny gets a bad rap, imo, is people keep comparing it to an MMO. And you're right in that it's a terrible MMO. You know why? Again, because it's not one.
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If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
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Why did the traveler that is all powerful do nothing to help🤔 why does the cabal dude speak english😳
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Majority of this information is false. Your comparing a beta to a full vanilla game release, its like comparing a scene from a movie sequal to the previous full movie in the series. If you want to make a true statement and one that makes more sense with accurate information, then compare DS1 beta to DS2 beta. Like so: DS1 Vanilla: has 4 explorable open world areas (earth, mars, moon, venus) with one you start on. DS2 Vanilla: Has 4 explorable open world areas (earth, nessus, titan, IO) with one you start on. [spoiler]Earth counts as new because its a new area, the European Dead Zone. Not the Cosmodrome.[/spoiler] DS1: 1 raid (Vanilla) DS2: 1 raid (Vanilla) [spoiler]like for -blam!-s sake[/spoiler] DS1 Beta: 1 strike DS2 Beta: 1 strike [spoiler]Feels like you completely ignrored this[/spoiler] DS1: 6 sub classes (Vanilla) DS2: 9 sub classes (Vanilla) [spoiler]so more content than Ds1 vanilla, you lose your powers at the start for the sake of the story. If you dont, it makes the whole story fall apart. Nearly zero thought was put into your statement, yeah?[/spoiler] Gameplay was never an issue in DS1, so why fix something thats not broken? Besides they expanded the subclasses with a third slot ability and an additional skill tree to help more customization for an optimal build. So looks like it was expanded to me. The map does have more icons and more activities to do. Like overworld bosses. Loot caches, permanent public events with timers and etc. They also might bring in some old mechanics and quests from DS1 and so what? You havent seen any gameplay of patrol like the rest of the world, how can you say its the same?? The maps are much larger, just watch some of the vids recorded by players at the event of the strike. You can clearly see the map is way more expansive, especially without last gen holding them back. So what that the leveling system is the same. Every sequal in almost every mmo/co-op series is. If you dont like the grind then this genre is drastically too much for you. And with all this [i][u]correct[/u][/i] information and comparison I have given, I'll gladly say that I am part of the "Hype train". Seems like the hype didnt cloud me from any real information like you so called "intellectual". Seems like you have way too much salt to see the truth, or as you put it the "uncolored" Version, and actual facts here. 30+ years of gaming and you still cant make a valid comparison for a simple game. Do some actual research before you embarrass yourself again on this forum.
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Edited by bFLY: 5/20/2017 8:06:18 PMSo many baseless assumptions, wrong information, and misunderstanding in this post. It makes my head hurt lol. So much wrong shit, I don't even have the energy to go through it and point it all out to you.
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Your argument is fairly badly structured since there's no counter argument. If you can't shut down why it's good then there's no argument. We're playing for nostalgia and it looks cool. We happy few don't actually care about what it's like