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Edited by Spawn:
10/10/2018 6:49:19 PM
209
Bringing Sniping Back in Destiny 2! (To: Sandbox Team)
Sandbox Team.
With the next few updates I think a large portion of the community would be really happy to see some positive changes for snipers in the crucible.
In today's meta, the strength, range, ammo advantages, and overall usability of shotguns make them a clear choice as the superior weapon. Many of us want to branch out and use snipers but with how they work in the game today... it's just not realistic.
- [b]Flinch[/b]
I think anyone who has attempted to snipe in the past few weeks will tell you that the flinch on snipers in unreasonably bad. The maps are already small but even when you are far enough away and well within "sniper" range, a handcannon shot from across the map can still send your reticle into the sky. I think most of us don't mind how powerful pulses are in the current meta but a sniper should be the better choice at longe ranges... and right now it's clearly not.
Also, horizontal flinch is probably one of the most frustrating game mechanics and makes all snipers feel very flimsy.
- [b]Handling[/b]
If you put Destiny 1 back into your console and pull out a sniper, you'll immediately notice that holding one feels much different. It doesn't have the sluggish feeling that most snipers in Destiny 2 (Note: on console)
- [b]Scopes[/b]
Small maps in Destiny 2 is fun. It keeps the gameplay exciting knowing there are always enemies right around the corner. The fact that snipers are long scoped, high zoomed weapons makes them really tough to use in most situations. Most lanes are not more than a few hundred feet, so using a long range scope on these maps is about as useful as trying to use a telescope to read a book. It's just unnecessary and does more harm than good.
- [b]Aim Assist / Hitbox Size[/b]
I truly believe that you can fix snipers even if you only touch ONE of these two things. If you want to argue that snipers shouldn't have aim assist and everyone should just [i]get good[/i] that's fine but then we need to increase the size of the hitbox. Just play a game with a sniper or watch someone else do it. The amount of times that you will get a body shot that you thought was a headshot is far too often. Watching the clips back in slow motion, I really think the hitbox is just too small. That combined with the flinch means that you will lose most 1v1's where the other player is looking your general direction.
- [b]Damage[/b]
Imagine you hear a super pop, you are aware of their location, manage to escape, gain some distance, turn around and make an incredible play to headshot them. To your dismay, sniping a sentinel / hammer / nova warp in the head only for them to notice you and then proceed to wipe the floor with you using their super is frankly just defeating. You did everything right, you made the right decisions, the skilled play, and still lost. Sniper headshots should kill supers. Enough said.
In conclusion, there is currently not a single situation in the game today where a sniper is the better choice for the everyday player. Up close you will lose to shotguns, sidearms, fusions, etc. At range you will lose to pulses, scouts, and even handcannons. Note: Just because you can get kills with a sniper doesn't mean that it's the better option. Just look at the use rates for snipers. Almost non-existent.
I hope you take this as genuine feedback from a long time supporter who loves the game. You've made a lot of strides in the past year and the snipers in the community are ready to make those legendary plays. We don't want easy mode, we want a chance... to make the legendary plays that made us fall in love with the game back in Destiny 1.
Please upvote this and hopefully @dmg is reading this and will pass it along to the sandbox team.
[spoiler]Moderator edit: This thread has been moved to #Feedback forum so that other Destiny players can weigh in. [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/139533839/0/0] See Cozmo's thread here[/url] for more information about the #Feedback tag and its uses.
Feel free to private message the moderator who moved your post, link to topic for further clarification about why this topic was moved.[/spoiler]
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6 RepliesOnly the best grenades....
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Completely agree. But I would like to add that there are also no good, large, open maps that encourage sniper usage. What about a Crucible game mode where you can only use snipers. That would be fun.
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Personally I have to disagree. I don't enjoy PVP but think it is the best it has ever been. The last thing I would want is to go into a match with a team load of snipers, especially as I'm more of a run and gun kinda guy.
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Ammo really is the crux of why snipers see less use. Getting more requires killing a guardian that has ammo and physically running over it. That’s difficult with a sniper but natural flow to shotgun use.
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I hate saying this, but the sandbox team bungie employes is incompetent. They can't do anything right.
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Oh its Geekermon. I dont like him.
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Edited by Crusader: 10/11/2018 2:46:40 PMPersonally, the only "problem" I see with sniping in Destiny 2 is the overall pace of combat. the majority of encounters don't make for stationary enough combat for someone to play a sniping role continuously. I don't necessarily see that as a problem though. Snipers are meant to be tactical units, they're not meant for every encounter. What it boils down to is just know your combat situation and plan your strategy accordingly. The real/actual problem is that too much focus is placed on trivial statistics. how well people did in things like strikes is left a bit ambiguous and players are left to kind of base their performance over data that may or may not really be relevant to the situations encountered. The number of kills for example. Most players would see a higher kill count as a mark of the "better player" when in all reality that person is just likely geared well to clean up trash mobs. whereas the true master of the strike might have had the fewest kills because he did his job correctly and focused on targets that were the priority/ greatest hazard to the team (an instance of a proper sniping scenario). what it boils down to is, Bungo was lazy, cut corners where they figured it didn't matter and it came back to bite them.
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1 ReplyRemove aim assist and increase hitbox? Thats not a good idea, That would only make it worse. You want snipers to be good? Shotguns needs their range decreased, the only thing I do agree is the insane flinch even at extremely long ranges but thats it. Snipers are perfectly fine as they are, shotguns are the reason why no one uses sniper. Shotguns are easier to use and because destiny maps are small, there are no reasons to ever use snipers over shotguns. Bungie needs to create bigger sized maps for snipers to be amazing
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When I’m sniping I aim to shoot first, and last ;)
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5 RepliesAs a fusion rifle user, I am very happy to not see three red lights beaming at me every time I turn a corner. Glad snipers actually take skill to use and the crucible isn't the snipe fest it was in D1. You should be flinched if someone gets the drop on you. I can't tell you the amount of times in D1 I was pecking away at someones head, even with HCR, and they somehow pull off a headshot. Total BS. And It should take longer to pull out what is theoretically a cumbersome weapon. It's not a small sidearm. And supers are super for a reason, get a second body shot if you've strategically distanced yourself enough.
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1 ReplyEdited by ACE: 10/11/2018 10:37:32 AMTbh I think all the people who are turning ur post down are the shotgunning no skilled people we play against everyday.... for the people who say “sniping should be a long range weapon where you sit and camp holding your zoom and land your shots” are all dumb. They don’t realise that the maps in destiny 2 are all short ranged and even if there is a sniping spot or two they are in like the worst positions. Plus the only long ranged map in the game (the new trials map) is a map where u EXPECT to see snipers, yet it’s not being used for its purpose, in other words no one snipes on that map. What good is having a sniper that takes so much flinch and long ranged zoom scopes if everyone you play against in the game either rush with shotguns or camp in corners with shotguns. Snipers need a buff in order to be a viable option. If u are a good sniper in the game maybe you can make do out of them but it makes u try hard an extra amount just so u can compete. I agree with everything geek says. Ps. Snipers should one shot supers because the skill required to land a headshot against them is high, so It should feel rewarding to 1hk one This is one of the things that made snipers so spectacular in d1.
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I think we've reached a decent sandbox here and while snipers need a buff and shotguns need a Nerf, it may be time to start taking baby steps in the right direction. Coming out of year 1 the crucible feels exponentially better. You don't want to go overkill in either direction though. Rather than one major adjustment once every month or two, it would be nice to see a patch every other week making small adjustments to range and flinch values for things that affect usability for weapons. Bungie has been doing a much better job of frequently adjusting and I think it is well within their ability to throw out these small patches more frequently. It would also do wonders for making the community feel more in touch with the devs.
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All the shotgun mains saying they don’t need a buff just cause there trashy ass runs around with a god roll shotgun with max range and rampage
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Really solid points. I snipe almost every game. I refuse to main a shitty. Pretty certain if you check my kill stats I have about 10x as many sniper kills as shotgun ones. I'd love to see sniper flinch reduced and maybe give four round to start with not two.
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4 RepliesAll the shotty Apes in the comments are like “ nah snipers are fine !!”. Lol how would you know when you’re too busy running around shottying and shoulder charging people.
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I remember back in D1 most of the time I had Icebreaker equipped, loved that gun SO much. It hit hard, had the ability to snapshot/quickscope targets at close range, and the ammo regen made it a solo players best friend. I still remember spending hours soloing Nightfalls, camping in safe spots while the ammo regenerated before I could lay into the boss again... all at a chance for a new legendary (or one in a million, Exotic) weapon. So because of Icebreaker, I sniped quite a bit in D1 (mostly PvE). Haven't really bothered with sniping in D2 aside from simply trying something different for the sake of it. Would love for sniper rifles to become relevant again, in both PvE and PvP. Because as of now, there is really no reason for me to use a special that isn't a shotgun in any part of this game. Also would be nice to have a sniper rifle that doesn't have a 50x zoom. Even the "low-zoom" scopes are just ridiculous with how much they zoom in and box out your line of sight. Would be awesome to have a non-crappy version of No Land Beyond, or some other super-short range sniper rifle that scopes in like an autorifle.
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Just make something to the flinch a the looooong scopes
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Well this is a console issue. No offense but I feel that the console version is much worse than the PC version. I feel bad for you guys playing on console
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Edited by Jy-Seven: 10/11/2018 11:39:40 PMPeople are like don't add aim assist I loved sniping with the praedyth's revenge with ambush scope that had low aim assist. In D2 I still snipe alot mainly with the rare Aachen sniper since it has ambush and I don't have other good ones yet, haven't gotten a fusion that I like and the ammo pick up needs fixing first. Maps do play a big part I don't know but most maps play out very wierdly alot of D1 maps were better not just for sniping. Scopes instead of barrel perks i just want d1 ambush and shortgaze back on snipers. Ammo pickup is ok once you have sniper scavenger perks but still annoying to pickup and reload, wish we had 4 shots when we respawn instead of 2 for all specials. Decent mid impact snipers should be able to shutdown all supers with a headshot. Would love to see more variety of perks for specials, Mulligan, replenish, life support could be a cool one too. Overall I think sniping is in an ok spot apart from scopes, ammo economy and super shutdown. Not that many snipe so I feel it's a tad more special and more rewarding when I land those double bodyshots 😉
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Edited by Havok: 10/11/2018 9:50:18 PMSnipers need MORE flinch. I shouldn’t be nailing a sniper in the head with a pulse and they can still hit a one shot head shot. It should be near impossible to get a kill with a sniper while being shot. At the same time, shotguns need a range or ammo nerf.
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I use snipers quite often and they feel fine its just the maps arent suited for them most of the time and they tend to favour aping people with shotguns. Although like 10-15% less flinch wouldnt hurt =)
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5 RepliesUgh, please no. Nothing takes the fun out faster than the ridiculousness of sniping in D1. There should be heavy penalties for using a weapon as inherently unfair as a sniper rifle
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Thanks but no. Snipers were too powerful and too dominating in Destiny 1 and I really don't want to go back to that. And personally, I also would have liked if Bungie hadn't made shotguns as strong as they are now. That's another thing I would have preferred not to be brought over from D1.
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1 Replyyeah I'd rather not go back to the crucible where snipers dominated but I would like them to be a little more viable. flinch is still a little much. the few times I've used them in forsaken I see the flinch and immediately switch to something else.
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4 RepliesImo snipers are in the best place they've ever been. I'd maybe give them an extra shot as default but that's it
