Before I begin, I must mention a few things. First ([b]1[/b]), the goal of this post is to resolve the issues involving Code of the Devastator in order to improve and/or fix PvE and PvP issues and viability. Second([b]2[/b]), this post is an extended version of my previous post on this subject, since the first was mostly rushed. Third ([b]3[/b]), some may not know that the throwing hammer's ability to activate health regeneration requires the hammer to have hit an enemy before you retrieve it. Fourth ([b]4[/b]), I'm not taking exotics into account since all subclass trees should be at least decent in both PvE and PvP. Fifth ([b]5[/b]), any combination and/or modifications of my suggestions would be fine as long as Code of the Devastator's PvP viabilty is improved, where it is most sorely lacking.
[u]Issues with Code of the Devastator[/u]
[b]Roaring Flames[/b]: In PvP, it is rare you'll get an ability kill to get a 1x stack and even more so to stack it to 3x. Even if you reach that point, you'll only have an abysmal upgrade to ability damage as a reward (even though the tree is built around it). Then you have only 15 seconds, which runs out a lot faster than you think, so it doesn't have and see nearly as much effectiveness and utility as you'd think.
[b]Throwing Hammer[/b]: First ([b]1[/b]), the hammer can be very difficult to keep track of since it'll bounce wherever it wants, especially in the middle of a chaotic battle. The hammer's direction and distance from the bounce will be practically unpredictable, so it could end up off the map, in an unreachable nook, or in the middle of enemies. Second ([b]2[/b]), once your hammer explodes after you scrambled around to find it, you'll have been crippled since your subclass tree is practically built around it since you won't be able to easily use Roaring Flames, since grenades are the next best choice but have a long cooldown. Third ([b]3[/b]), in PvP, it's not very rewarding getting a kill with it since you'll have to retrieve it where it'll likely be in a place an opponent will easily gun you down or just be straight up lost. Fourth ([b]4[/b]), when a bunch of thrall or warbeasts charge and chase you, you'll throw your tiny hammer into the crowd only to kill 1, maybe 2 if you're lucky, and immediately after which you'll be reminded as to why this subclass tree is undeserving of its title of "Code of the Devastator" (to which Code of the Fire-forged is more deserving).
[b]Super[/b]: In PvE, I believe the the super's damage and its overhead slam is fine as it is, but most of its issues are in PvP and tthe spin move. First ([b]1[/b]), in PvE and somewhat in PvP, the overhead slam's fire tornado will launch most enemies in the air (large enemies, such as ogres, won't be affected), where you'll have your combo broken and have to chase after your bouncing foe while wasting your super. Second ([b]2[/b]), in PvP, the burning maul super has no way to attack in-air targets, with the slam having no melee lunge and tracking and the spin having almost no range, sad damage (a giant two-handed warhammer can't even kill a normal guardian in 1 hit, instead 3 - 5), no tracking, and no melee lunge. In PvP, all enemies have to do is just spam jump and stay above you as you waste your super and look like a fool, since spin is unreliable and a waste and the slam is ground-based and slow. Third ([b]3[/b]), the spin itself is a detriment to the super. It's a useless move that does the same job as the slam but worse, since it consumes more super energy, can't be used for mobility since you get barely any boost, and as mentioned before, the spin has terrible damage, no tracking, very short range, and no lunge.
[u]Solutions to Code of the Devastator's Issues[/u]
My presented solutions will numerically correspond with the issues above.
[b]Roaring Flames[/b]: Increase the timer from 15 to 20 seconds to allow players the time necessary to get proper benefits out of it and increase its effects in PvP, since only 30 more damage to your hammer at 3x Roaring Flames is ridiculously bad.
[b]Throwing Hammer[/b]: First ([b]1[/b]), add an indicator pointing to your hammer and (optional) allow the ability to see your hammer through walls. Second ([b]2[/b]), increase the time it takes for hammer to explode and the pick-up range. Third ([b]3[/b]), include the ability to summon your hammer from anywhere but only after getting a throwing hammer kill (after recalling, either allow health regen to still proc or give only a bump of health). Fourth ([b]4[/b]), have enemies killed by the throwing hammer explode (similar to dragonfly/firefly).
[b]Super[/b]: First ([b]1[/b]), replace the fire tornado's ability to vertically launch enemies with the ability to pull in nearby enemies, as a tornado would typically do. Have the pull be stronger the closer you are to it. This wouldn't be OP as long as the pull-in range it has isn't ridiculous, since the fire tornado itself already doesn't last long and is incredibly noticeable and avoidable. Plus, it would help in getting Roaring Flames activated. If it's still too much, then just get rid of the launching mechanic and we'd be fine. Second ([b]2[/b]) and third ([b]3[/b]), replace the spin move with an uppercut dash move, similar to Suncharge of D1, just with not as insane tracking/lock-on and damage (Suncharge could OHK supers). The only exception would be if 3x Roaring Flames is active, in which supers could be OHK. Normally, this uppercut dash should have enough damage to OHK normal guardians (as a melee super should have), medium range (as much as Suncharge), reliable lock-on/tracking (as a melee super should have), at least the same super energy cost as the spin, and get rid of the ability to spam and chain it back to back like the spin. This would allow some form of mobility and a counter to in-air targets, while not replacing the slam and being able to inherently OHK or overpower supers (except if at 3x Roaring Flames).
[u]Updates[/u]
[b]New Recommended Suggestion for Burning Maul's Spin (thanks to Casa_Nova)[/b]
A combination of Suncharge + spin move, with the last hit being a large powerful strike with increased tracking and the ability to kill normal-health guardians in one hit. It may sound like a lot, but hear me out. First ([b]1[/b]), you activate it, where it'll cost as much as or a little bit less than the spin does now. Second ([b]2[/b]), you're propelled forward or toward a locked-on nearby enemy in a reasonable range (Suncharge range). Third ([b]3[/b]), you're spinning while being boosted forward. Fourth([b]4[/b]), the final hit in the animation does enough damage to kill normal health guardians. This would counter in-air targets with its lock-on and tracking, allowing the super to kill a close normal-health guardian in one hit (as a melee super should), give better mobility, have reasonable range, live up to the tree's title of "Devastator", and not require new major animations (maybe).
[b]Added Note for Hammer Recall[/b]
I must mention that I was already assuming there'd be an animation tied to it, similar to Voidwalker's melees. Having it instant may be too much.
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I couldn’t agree more, but one side note. Ever seen what a three stack roaring flames and wormgods caress does to people? Who needs that when your hammer literally does the same amount of damage as a rocket lol
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As the sun breaker with almost 100,000 kills in PVE. No offense, there’s nothing wrong with that subclass other than the floating heavy slam enemies. If you throw the hammer right with good aim it practically comes back to you anyway, Also ,bounce it off the back your teammates head to proc health regeneration.And as far as PVP goes just switch to a different tree, problems solved.
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Edited by Ruin Wings: 10/26/2018 10:30:07 AMThe throwing hammer is already a decently strong ability. You can't buff it very much without making it insane. Though I agree with the marker and increased pickup radius. However instant health regen and hammer-pull on kill is kind of silly and the explosion I can see but it could easily become ridiculous with certain exotic synergies. Equip the dune marchers if you want crowd control on your hammer. Or just use your grenade. Not to sound rude. As for the super I agree with what you said about the slam. But you're way off base about the spin attack changes. First of all bungie isn't going to completely scrap this move and make a new animation from scratch. That's never going to happen it's a pipedream. Secondly the spin DOES provide a mobility boost that's very useful and raises the super's skill ceiling a lot. However it is true that the super gets shut down by well timed jumps and the spin's bad tracking + janky hitbox + requiring 3 or more hits means you can't challenge them in the air at all. I suggest instead of scrapping the spin we change the way the hitbox works so that the final hit has a HUMONGOUS powerful hitbox capable of 1 shotting a guardian AND we increase the tracking. This way we can still have the chaining spin be multi-hit but ALSO have the spin function as a more consistent single target attack.
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I like how you've made balanced, well-reasoned suggestions to problems you've identified. It's a rare sight on the forums. I agree completely on the Super stuff. The Throwing Hammer, as it is, is underrated in my opinion, even in PvP. I do agree that it is a tad impractical but it still outshines Throwing Knife is almost every way (tracking, potential damage with Roaring Flames or Wormgod's Caress, health regen opportunity, refundable cooldown). I'm not sure it really needs a buff. If it did get one, I would simply vote for a recall like you said. And the visual tracker of where it landed would be useful but that's a quality of life change, not a buff, so it of course should get that. Now I would love an exotic armor piece that made all your solar kills create explosions based on your Roaring Flames stacks. That'd be sick and work very, very well with Throwing Hammer.
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I agree with all of this. I'd like to add that Burning Maul should be reverted to it's original name of Siegehammer. It's just a better name. Also, instead of replacing the the fire spin with a Suncharge, make the Suncharge bind to the grenade input during the super. This just adds more utility. Additionally, for the Siegebreaker path, Sunspots and Mortar Blast need serious love. Mortar Blast should be regular melee + AoE blast, not just the AoE blast. Sunspots need to provide a buff to armor while standing in them similar to what they did in D1. Standing in place is a bad idea without it.
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Suction is unbalancable. It's gonna either break the game or have no effect. I like giving it sun charge, and I see no reason why it can't be exactly how it is in D1. If Nova warp is kept it can probably be brought farther. So can some others:) Warlock main
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Edited by Dovahdiamond64: 10/26/2018 1:07:33 PMAn idea would be enabling precision damage for the throwing hammer, and if it gets a precision kill it boomerangs back to the place it was thrown from.
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I agree with pretty much everything, the only two suggestions I would make is to have the throwing hammer cause a detonation only on a 3x roaring flames hit, and tie the hammer returning to you to an exotic armour piece. Even then, it might be pretty powerful, unless it’s on some sort of cool down. All other suggestions are great though!
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I like this. These changes would be great to implement into the game
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Bump and we’ll said
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Awesome changes. [spoiler]Nerf Blade Barrage.[/spoiler]
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Honestly... not bad 🤔. Sounds pretty viable and not really that OP at all. I like the recall hammer ability. Thor style.
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Edited by cdibie: 10/25/2018 5:46:28 PMSuncharge should OHK supers?? Are you blam!ing serious?? GTFOH scrub. Dumba$$ posts like the scribbling up here is the reason why this game is where it's at right now. PATHETIC
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You want a roaring flames increase from 15 to 20 seconds? You do realise that lethal current on arcstrider was nerfed from 10 to 5 seconds with forsaken right? You have 3x the amount of time hunters have...
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So what you're saying is... Nerf fusion rifles?
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“YEEAAAASSS!” -Shaxx
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Bump. If these changes were implemented i would use Code of the Devestator a whole lot more.
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A much better, much more better soloution to code of the devastator: [spoiler]Nothing is changed, except that the titan becomes Invisible when the super is cast, leaving only the hammer visible. Guardians will be too busy running In fear or Laughing to fight back or dodge.[/spoiler]
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I love these changes.