Look after explaining it so many times I'm just going to put it this way. This is just general speak so just follow me. Everyone has a capacity to ask for help. Everyone has the capacity to get teams together. Everyone has a capacity to find patterns I hope. I everyone has the capacity to go online and check if anyone else has figured something out. If no one has made any good progress then it is what it is. My main problem is when people bitching moaning about it instead of just trying to figure it out. if the puzzles poorly designed after you figured it out then it's poorly designed I don't know what to tell you. it's kind of like a door right? If you don't have the right key to open up the lock that's like saying the door is stupid the door is broken the door is poorly designed. [i]that's not true[/i] Now if you open the door and it didn't open properly then you can say OK the door is poorly designed. that is fine because you've tried it and you've opened it. I'd rather people in the forms not sound like a raging lunatic and just collaborate and don't even complain until everybody's figured it out and then you talk about it. my projection is more ideal then some and it may not be based in reality because you do see how people react. I mean look at how you first responded to me. I'm not calling you crazy but I believe that that is what is to be expected when I tell people hey chill out we can get it done let's work together you can do it.